Summations Only

Hi Alfred, In Message 24 I said:

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In fact everyone here that I have engaged except cavediver has held to some sort of creationism. They do not believe in the YEC version but they do believe in creationism as they believe in the BBT.

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To have the BBT that begins from a point that has no place to exist one has to believe in creationism, of some sort.

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I personally believe from studying the scriptures that the universe and earth have always existed in some form just not in the form we observe it today.

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Apology accepted.God BlessEdited by ICANT, : No reason given.

Hi Alfred The problem with the raisins in the dough is that they are all moving away from each other as the dough expands.If the space between everything was expanding there would be no blue shifted items in the universe.OPPS we are on a collision course with Andromeda.Therefore space is not expanding as preached. The space between the Milky Way and Andromeda is decreasing not expanding.God Bless,

Hi Alfred, The problem is they have no clue as to what existence is.We know the Universe and Earth exist because we exist on Earth in the Universe.That leaves only 2 alternatives.Either the Universe has always existed in some form or the Universe had a beginning to exist.The BBT requires the Universe have a beginning to exist. Thus it had to be created from non existence, which is an impossibility.That is the reason it was accepted by religion when it was put forth.These guys argue the BBT as if it has been amended by string theory (so called) which has not been accepted as a theory.They do that because cavediver in his discussions skips to Hawking's nobounded universe which starts with an instanton.Then they don't have sense enough to know that requires existence to exist prior to the BB. Because the BB requires the Universe to be about 13.7 billion years old.So either they believe the Universe has always existed in some form!Or they believe it had a beginning to exist.If they believe it had a beginning to exist they ARE A CREATIONIST as they believe the Universe had a beginning to exist.God Bless,

Hi Coragyps, So explain.I said all the raisins would move away from each other as the dough expands.Do you disagree that the raisins will all move away from each other as the dough expands?I said, if the space between everything was expanding there would be no blue shifted items in the universe.Do you disagree that there would be no blue shifted items in the Universe if space was expanding at the same speed between everything in the universe?I said, the space between the Milky Way and Andromeda is decreasing not expanding.Do you disagree that the space between the Milky Way and Andromeda is not decreasing?If you disagree with any of these please explain why you disagree.God Bless,

Hi Oni, You wouldn't live long enough to reach Andromeda traveling at the speed of light.But expansion is based upon:

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The night sky presents the viewer with a picture of a calm and unchanging Universe. So the 1929 discovery by Edwin Hubble that the Universe is in fact expanding at enormous speed was revolutionary. Hubble noted that galaxies outside our own Milky Way were all moving away from us, each at a speed proportional to its distance from us. He quickly realized what this meant that there must have been an instant in time (now known to be about 14 billion years ago) when the entire Universe was contained in a single point in space. The Universe must have been born in this single violent event which came to be known as the "Big Bang."

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The Big Bang | Science Mission DirectorateThus expansion is based upon the assumption of all galaxies outside our own Milky Way moving away from us.If everything was in one place at one time and expanded to where it is today there could be no blue shifted galaxies out there if expansion and the BBT is correct.As far as distance between the Earth and Andromeda it is around 2.5 million light years. 2.410¹⁹ km Are you saying expansion of space between objects is not taking place? So you are saying that space is not expanding.Andromeda and the Milky is getting closer together.That being the case they did not originate in a central point, as demanded by the BBT. So the Milky Way and Andromeda are moving through space like our space ships do when they go to the space station, is that what you are saying?If so what is the mechanism for such movement? So if the BBT is correct Expansion never took place because it had no grand scale to take place in.That is unless space is what is expanding and separating the different entities in the universe.But that can't be as there are some that are blue shifted.God Bless,

Hi Oni, So how did they get separated in the first place?God Bless,

Hi Oni, I understand that you and others believe that.I also understand that there are others that don't believe that.If space between the two is expanding at the speed of light how can they get closer together?I know we will invoke gravity and space ceases to expand. between the galaxy's as it does in the galaxy. Thus we say the galaxies are gravitationally bound. That being the case why is the Milky Way and Andromeda not gravitationally bound to a larger group which is bound to a larger group etc. Then what is expanding?God Bless,

Hi Coragyps, There are 17 satelite galaxies orbiting the Milky Way, and Andromeda is not one of them.There are 23 satelite galaxies orbiting Andromeda and the Milky Way is not one of them.God Bless,The Milky Way and Andromeda are on a head on collision course.

Hi Taq, That is my point it was. There had to be existence for the Uiverse to begin to exist. You know better than that.Lightning happens when specific conditions occur in the atmosphere.So no, there is a cause for lightning.God Bless,

Hi Taq, Does that mean that there is no dark energy between the Milky Way and Andromeda?God Bless,

Hi Taq, Take the balloon you guys are always talking about and put your dots on it. Get you a 1 qt. syrup bottle that has the very small neck. Stuff the balloon into the bottle. Once you have all the baloon in the bottle you will notice that there is a lot of space between the balloon and the glass of the bottle. Now begin to blow air into the balloon and it will began to fill the space inside the bottle until the bottle is full. You will notice then that the balloon will try to escape out of the bottle at the point you are introducing air. But try as you may you will not get the balloon to expand any further inside the bottle, as it has reached the limit it can expand.Now take another balloon and do not put it in anyting and begin to blow it up. It will burst before it fills the space around it.Therefore if the Universe is expanding it is expanding into existence.If there had not been existence for that little pea sized thing I am told existed at T+1/100 of a billionth of a second it would still be that size.As the cat says for something to expand it has to have something to expand into.God Bless,

Hi NoNukes, Shouldn't that number read 300 km/h?God Bless,

Hi ringo, Where did that pretty small thing come from?Had it always existed?If so, where did it exist?If it had not always existed how did it begin to exist?God Bless,

Hi Son,Long time no argue. Stephen Hawking said in his lecture, "The Beginning of Time".

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In this lecture, I would like to discuss whether time itself has a beginning, and whether it will have an end. All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. Yet it is now taken for granted.

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The page you were looking for doesn't exist (404)This statement says the universe has not existed forever.The universe does exist today.That requires a beginning to exist.But if there is non-existence there could be no beginning to exist.Can we agree that for the universe to exist at T=0 it either had to exist in some form prior to T=0, or either it had to have a beginning to exist from non-existence?Or do you have another explanation?God Bless,

Hi Panda, Where in Message 219 did I mention the BBT?I did ask some questions you did not address, they are:Where did that pretty small thing come from?Scientific answer is, "We don't know".Had it always existed?BBT requieres the universe to begin to exist, according to Stephen Hawking in "The Beginning of Time"If so, where did it exist?There is no place for it to exist as there is non-existence.If it had not always existed how did it begin to exist?It is impossible for the universe to begin to exist from non-existence.Conclusion:The universe has always existed in some form.Stephen Hawking came up with an instanton as the mechanism for the universe to begin to exist. The problem with that is that there was non-existence for the instanton to appear in.Two strings banging together require prior existence.Two branes banging together require prior existence.The BBT is the only theory that requires a beginning to exist and that is the reason it was accepted by religion.God Bless,