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Author Topic:   The one and only non-creationist in this forum.
Taq
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Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


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Message 9 of 558 (677893)
11-02-2012 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-02-2012 8:16 AM


I propose in this thread that I am the one and only non-creationist in this forum. That is simple. I cannot conceive a single atom to be created out of nothing or being turned into nothing.
I am with you on that one. I fully agree that the Big Bang was caused by something, be it the collision of M-branes or some other theory yet to be constructed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-02-2012 8:16 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-04-2012 2:08 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 48 of 558 (678116)
11-05-2012 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-04-2012 2:08 AM


Taq, those m or peabrain propositions are all crypto-dtching of the big bunk nonsense. For to collide is a verb describing an event resulting from a motion of well-existing objects relative to each other. That contradicts the idea of the space-time creating bang as all motion implies space to be well there already and could be well measured in time. The branes must travel some distances before colliding, you know. That excludes any creations, expansion of the universe as a whole, etc.
Turns the bunk into a non-event. That the mpeabrains themselves are purely imaginary and impossible entities is another matter.
It just requires a timeline outside of our universe's timeline. That's it. Problem solved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-04-2012 2:08 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-05-2012 9:39 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 81 of 558 (678284)
11-06-2012 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-06-2012 5:25 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
You've got a grave problem with definitions.
Wow, a website dedicated to semantic fallacies.
Otherwise what is exactly the contribution of bigbangism to progress and science that you are hinting at?
The BB explains galactic redshift, the CMB, time dilation in distant type Ia supernovae, and a whole host of other observations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-06-2012 5:25 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-06-2012 9:22 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 84 of 558 (678367)
11-07-2012 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-06-2012 9:22 PM


Re: Vatican sophistry
Redshift of the signal explained with stretching intergalactic distances is strictly for birds.
I guess I don't understand what you are getting at here. Are you saying that expansion would not produce redshifts?
Space, time and light speed signal are three sides of a triangle.
Since when? You seem to be making stuff up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-06-2012 9:22 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-08-2012 4:04 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 94 of 558 (678497)
11-08-2012 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-08-2012 4:04 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
No, what I am saying is that expansion of space is a ludicrous concept not explaining in any way the observation of the redshift of the signal.
You can say that the Earth is stationary and that the Sun orbits around it. Saying stuff DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. People once claimed the heliocentrism was ludicrous. In the words of Galileo, "And yet it moves". You need to learn the concept summarized by the phrase, "the map is not the territory".
Space is an abstraction and not an expandable fabric . . .
You are going to need to supply evidence for this. Where is your evidence that space is not expanding.
Also, where is your explanation for why the light from distant galaxies is redshifted?
Of course, mathematically the relation could be easily reduced to the relation of sides in a triangle.
Why not a square, or an octagon?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-08-2012 4:04 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-09-2012 1:18 AM Taq has not replied
 Message 96 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-09-2012 2:36 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 101 of 558 (678625)
11-09-2012 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-09-2012 2:36 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
Whereas the Universe is not such an object surrounded with an outside and therefore it is not capable of the kind of uniform outward motion of its surface that is called an expansion.
Where is your support for any of these claims?
The physics of it cannot change.
It can not be made up on the spot either, which is exactly what you are doing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-09-2012 2:36 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-10-2012 1:10 AM Taq has replied
 Message 107 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-10-2012 7:14 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 139 of 558 (679304)
11-13-2012 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-10-2012 1:10 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
Remember, it is you lot who are making all the positive tall claims.
As are you. You are claiming that a universe can not expand unless there is something to expand into. Where is your support for this claim?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-10-2012 1:10 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-14-2012 4:59 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 140 of 558 (679305)
11-13-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-10-2012 7:14 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
He is asking the cat to support the observation that some available room is needed to move in each and every case where a motion of physical objects has occurred.
False. I am challenging the claim that room is needed in each and every case. Where is your support?
The process of expansion is a two entities relation. One entity expands and another is being expanded into. No exceptions.
Evidence please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-10-2012 7:14 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-13-2012 11:51 AM Taq has replied
 Message 148 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2012 12:52 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 141 of 558 (679307)
11-13-2012 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by ICANT
11-10-2012 5:17 PM


Re: Creation
The BBT requires the Universe have a beginning to exist. Thus it had to be created from non existence, which is an impossibility.
Why couldn't it have been created from existence? Lightning has a beginning, so does that mean lightning comes from non-exsitence?
You are just like Mr. Maddenstein. You are making claims you have zero evidence for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by ICANT, posted 11-10-2012 5:17 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2012 12:21 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 142 of 558 (679308)
11-13-2012 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-11-2012 4:45 AM


Re: Raisin Muffin
The distance between points is kept as vague, the actual borderline where gravity ends and the putative anti-gravity the clowns call the devil's energy begins its sphere of influence is equally left darkly undefined so the quacks can get away with any murder on large scales.
That's false as well. The force of gravity and dark energy are well defined. Gravity decreases over distance while dark energy increases.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-11-2012 4:45 AM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2012 12:29 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 145 of 558 (679356)
11-13-2012 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-13-2012 11:51 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
In science we don't deal with dubious evidence to persuade the jury and the crowd. In science we conceptualise and explain.
In science, we do deal with evidence. That's the whole point.
The expanding entity always has a physical border.
Evidence please.
Expansion in this case is claimed to signify an increase in the physical volume of the Universe. The volume must necessarily be gained from another already existing volume.
Evidence please.
The Universe is surrounded by nothing by definition.
Where? From everything I have read, there is no evidence one way or the other.
It's up to you to show the judge how this clear meaning of the physical term could be violated . . .
No, it is up to you to show that your claims are backed by evidence. Shifting the burden of proof only shows how shallow your claims are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-13-2012 11:51 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-14-2012 5:10 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 158 of 558 (679529)
11-14-2012 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by ICANT
11-14-2012 12:21 AM


Re: Creation
That is my point it was. There had to be existence for the Uiverse to begin to exist.
Then the problem is solved.
Lightning happens when specific conditions occur in the atmosphere.
Why can't universes be produced in a similar manner?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2012 12:21 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 159 of 558 (679531)
11-14-2012 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by ICANT
11-14-2012 12:52 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
Take the balloon you guys are always talking about and put your dots on it. Get you a 1 qt. syrup bottle that has the very small neck. Stuff the balloon into the bottle. Once you have all the baloon in the bottle you will notice that there is a lot of space between the balloon and the glass of the bottle. Now begin to blow air into the balloon and it will began to fill the space inside the bottle until the bottle is full. You will notice then that the balloon will try to escape out of the bottle at the point you are introducing air. But try as you may you will not get the balloon to expand any further inside the bottle, as it has reached the limit it can expand.
Now take another balloon and do not put it in anyting and begin to blow it up. It will burst before it fills the space around it.
Therefore if the Universe is expanding it is expanding into existence.
You need to learn your logical fallacies. That is an argument from analogy, a well known fallacy.
As the cat says for something to expand it has to have something to expand into.
Whether that is true or not, the fact is that the universe is expanding. That is what all of the evidence demonstrates. For whatever reason, the cat wants to ignore the facts because they don't fit into his fantasies of what the universe should look like according to Cat. That is the epitome of hubris.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2012 12:52 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 160 of 558 (679533)
11-14-2012 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by ICANT
11-14-2012 12:29 AM


Re: Raisin Muffin
Does that mean that there is no dark energy between the Milky Way and Andromeda?
It means that there is more dark energy between us and the Milky Way than there is between us and the Sun. Dark energy is evenly distributed through the universe, so the amount of expansion caused by dark energy is a function of distance. The more distance there is between two objects the more expansion there in the space between the objects. Gravity goes the other way. The further away two objects are the weaker the attraction. This means that over shorter distances gravity is the dominant force. However, over larger distances dark energy is the dominant force.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2012 12:29 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 161 of 558 (679534)
11-14-2012 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Alfred Maddenstein
11-14-2012 4:59 AM


Re: Vatican sophistry
You need some evidence to the contrary?
I need some evidence for your claims.
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be
dismissed without evidence."--Christopher Hitchens
All of the evidence demonstrates that the universe is expanding. Your position is worse than being unsupported. It is contradicted by the facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-14-2012 4:59 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 11-14-2012 1:36 PM Taq has replied

  
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