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Author Topic:   Creationism Road Trip
jar
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Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 8 of 409 (678511)
11-08-2012 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Stile
11-08-2012 3:06 PM


Re: One Day
In a mere 50, 75... maybe 100 years from now... I think the world will be dominated by people who are open to taking in and analyzing new information in a way that the social world has never seen before. Evidence driven decision making will become "normal social etiquette."

Like today's social media driven world?

Who has the larger audience, Fox News or PBS?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 11-08-2012 3:06 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by foreveryoung, posted 11-08-2012 9:39 PM jar has responded
 Message 37 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 9:17 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 17 of 409 (678538)
11-08-2012 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by foreveryoung
11-08-2012 9:39 PM


Re: One Day
Fox News. That is because most people recognize soviet style propaganda even if it is cloaked in soft, classical music and milquetoast tones of voice.

You say they recognize soviet style propaganda yet they watch Fox News?

They also have no where else to turn if they don't want to hear progressive, collectivist, anti-traditional american values propaganda.

Yes, they certainly want to avoid progress, I believe you are right there.

But what anti-traditional American Values are you referencing?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by foreveryoung, posted 11-08-2012 9:39 PM foreveryoung has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by foreveryoung, posted 11-08-2012 10:41 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 24 of 409 (678549)
11-08-2012 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by foreveryoung
11-08-2012 10:41 PM


Re: One Day
foreveryoung writes:

jar writes:

You say they recognize soviet style propaganda yet they watch Fox News?

Yes, because it is the only place where they can find an absence of it.

I'm sorry but what soviet style propaganda is found on anything other than Fox News?

foreveryoung writes:

jar writes:

Yes, they certainly want to avoid progress, I believe you are right there.

Not progress; progressive, as in what started back around 1890.

So you want to return to before 1890. Yup, I can believe that.

foreveryoung writes:

jar writes:

But what anti-traditional American Values are you referencing?

Everything my parents grew up relying on has been mocked daily by the other media outlets. Everyone but FOX is trying to convince their audience that america needs to emulate europe and particularly european socialism. That is exactly the opposite of what america used to be all about. They are also trying to persuade their audience that not permitting the moral filth that is common to europe and San Francisco makes them evil people. This is the kind of values that are anything but traditional american.

I have no idea what your parents grew up believing so you will have to provide some other evidence.

What is wrong with socialism, after all Jesus would have been a communist, even beyond socialist. How is that different than what the US has always been about?

What moral filth are you talking about that makes folk evil? Again, you need to provide some evidence instead of just making unsupported assertions.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by foreveryoung, posted 11-08-2012 10:41 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 35 of 409 (678593)
11-09-2012 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by foreveryoung
11-09-2012 1:10 AM


Re: One Day
foreveryoung writes:

The key word is VOLUNTARY. I was talking about forced communal farming. What fearmongering are you talking about. I was only speaking to reality.

And I imagine you can provide the evidence that forced communal farming happens in the US?

You keep using that word "reality" yet I have to wonder if you know what it means?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 27 by foreveryoung, posted 11-09-2012 1:10 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 38 of 409 (678599)
11-09-2012 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Stile
11-09-2012 9:17 AM


Re: One Day
But you said "In a mere 50, 75... maybe 100 years from now... I think the world will be dominated by people who are open to taking in and analyzing new information in a way that the social world has never seen before. Evidence driven decision making will become "normal social etiquette." "

Now you say "Take a general sample of kids under 20 years old from US/Canada/Europe (and likely other areas as well...).
I'm willing to bet that they are the most unbiased, non-racist, non-discriminatory group of people you've ever meet."

What does that have to do with evidence driven decision making?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 9:17 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 9:45 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 42 of 409 (678607)
11-09-2012 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Stile
11-09-2012 9:45 AM


On discrimination
But discrimination is essential, important and not taught enough.

Discrimination is the only way to sift through the volume of data presented in our increasingly connected world to make decisions based on evidence or morality or ethics or ...

The issue is "How do we teach how to profitably discriminate?"

We need to be encouraging discrimination yet what we see all too often (maybe far more here in the US) is just the opposite, we find avoidance and exclusivity and emotional acceptance of data that is filtered not by evidence but rather by popularity.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 9:45 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 10:28 AM jar has responded
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 11-13-2012 7:17 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 45 of 409 (678611)
11-09-2012 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Stile
11-09-2012 10:28 AM


Re: On discrimination
I understood that.

But the issue remains; we do not seem to be teaching kids to discriminate and looking at social media (internet, cable TV, Twitter, Pinterest, the apps in App Stores, ...) it seems that the trend is towards emotional and immediacy as driving forces and not discrimination.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 10:28 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 10:57 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 47 of 409 (678615)
11-09-2012 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Stile
11-09-2012 10:57 AM


Re: On discrimination
I hope that is the case, BUT I have strong reservations that it will happen.

A short personal aside:

I'm of the generation that was directly involved in some pretty profound changes in the US, the Vietnam War and the opposition to it, the desegregation movement, voting rights, the sexual revolution and women's rights and the early days of the communications and computer age.

While the parts I played were relatively minor, I was able to at least be a spectator.

A couple short anecdotes.

During the early days of the opposition to the War in Vietnam I helped conduct a survey that had two key questions.

One was whether or not we should get out of Vietnam.
The second key question asked "Our French ally has asked for our support to stop Communist Chinese from invading French Indochina; should we aid our ally?"

Many of the respondents that answered the former question with "Yes" also answered "Yes" to the latter question.

The second anecdote was later when I was designing some of the first Cable TV systems which would bring as many as twelve channels to a home instead of the two or three that were available over the air. The company I was working for was testing some set top converters that would allow even more channels and two way transmission and we were discussing the future that broadband communications would allow. There were lots of exciting possibilities, real time voting, education, but the consensus was that it would end up at the lowest common denominator, 100s of entertainment channels.

Look at what is seen today on the History Channel, the NatGeo channel, the Science channel ...


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 10:57 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Stile, posted 11-09-2012 12:04 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
 Message 53 by Omnivorous, posted 11-09-2012 6:46 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 54 of 409 (678666)
11-09-2012 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Omnivorous
11-09-2012 6:46 PM


Re: On discrimination
And when Ho Chi Min asked the US to support a democratic election refused to even meet with him or consider an election.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Omnivorous, posted 11-09-2012 6:46 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Omnivorous, posted 11-09-2012 7:12 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 71 of 409 (679294)
11-13-2012 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Faith
11-13-2012 7:17 AM


Re: On discrimination
Sorry Faith but your very posts in this thread refute your position.

You KNOW the TRUTH, and so cannot be swayed by facts or evidence. That is why a Creationist can never honestly be a scientist.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Faith, posted 11-13-2012 7:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Theodoric, posted 11-13-2012 8:56 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 156 of 409 (680251)
11-18-2012 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
11-18-2012 9:02 PM


Re: Ken Ham's response / and a note on this thread
Obviously this discussion on this thread is futile, however, all of it, the polarization is so wide. There is no agreement from any of you for even a single point made by a creationist that I've ever seen here, no matter how hard we might work to be thorough in our reasoning. I might as well continue to argue on my blog instead.

The classic example of the "Avoidance Christianity", when you can't support your position just run away. It is the signature of particularly the American Biblical Christian. Create avoidance carny shows and call them "Creation Museums", create avoidance schools, TV channels, browsers, science and call it "Creation Science", avoidance textbooks, ...

It's pitiful.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 9:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 161 of 409 (680266)
11-18-2012 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Faith
11-18-2012 9:53 PM


Re: When is the flood?
It's just that the entire geological column was laid down IN THE FLOOD around 4300 BC, so it isn't "deep time" at all.

That has to be the most inane and vacuous assertion I've heard in three quarters of a century.

Please present the mechanism that the Flood used to lay down the Vishnu schist.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 9:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 10:12 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 163 of 409 (680272)
11-18-2012 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
11-18-2012 10:12 PM


Getting to the details.
Beg your pardon.

How did the flood create the basic materials of the strata that became the schist?

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 10:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 10:31 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 165 of 409 (680274)
11-18-2012 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Faith
11-18-2012 10:31 PM


Re: Getting to the details.
That's just nonsense Faith, word salad.

How did the flood get the materials that became the layer that eventually became the Vishnu Schist.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 10:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 11:26 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 169 of 409 (680284)
11-18-2012 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
11-18-2012 11:26 PM


Re: Getting to the details.
Well let's see if that holds up to examination.

Do you know what schist looks like?

Do you know what it is made from?

And exactly which early stage of the flood?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 11:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 11:43 PM jar has responded

  
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