Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 88 (8927 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-23-2019 5:55 PM
33 online now:
AZPaul3, dwise1, jar, kjsimons, ooh-child, PaulK, Percy (Admin), ringo, Tangle, WookieeB (10 members, 23 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 860,340 Year: 15,376/19,786 Month: 2,099/3,058 Week: 473/404 Day: 77/63 Hour: 3/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Creationism Road Trip
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 7 of 409 (678509)
11-08-2012 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Stile
11-08-2012 3:06 PM


Re: One Day
Stile writes:

In a mere 50, 75... maybe 100 years from now... I think the world will be dominated by people who are open to taking in and analyzing new information in a way that the social world has never seen before. Evidence driven decision making will become "normal social etiquette." Can you imagine the governmental system if it was dominated by evidence-driven decision making? It really makes me wish I could live for 300 years just to see what happens...

Sorta like the Enlightenment, eh?

Then again, I'll also admit I can sometimes be a faithful optimist.

We'll get there. Well, not us...


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Stile, posted 11-08-2012 3:06 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(4)
Message 52 of 409 (678662)
11-09-2012 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by nwr
11-09-2012 5:44 PM


Re: One Day
nwr writes:

In most of the cases that I am aware of, the teachers union negotiated retirement benefits. They would have preferred a pay increase. They settled for retirement benefits, as a kind of delayed payment for their services.

If taxes are going up now to pay teachers retirement benefits, then blame the politicians. If the politicians had taken the money that they had saved by paying lower salary, and put that into an investment account, there would be no problem paying those retirement benefits.

The parallel scenario on the corporate side is even more despicable.

As a United Auto Workers member in the 1970s, I watched my union accept pension funding in lieu of pay increases.

The contributions required to fund those pensions were determined by law; however, in response to corporate lobbying, "temporary" shortfalls were allowed by Congressional action.

As a consequence, conservatives were able to point at fictitious labor costs based on theoretical pension contributions that the automakers were not, in fact, making.

Fast forward a few decades, and corporations throughout the U.S. are allowed, in bankruptcy court, simply to sever their pension agreements (and labor contracts in toto) or, alternatively, to abandon them to the federal insurance program.

Adding insult to injury, conservatives rail against government bailouts of the auto industry (caused primarily by mismanagement, e.g., failing to produce cars people actually wanted) because they did not hurt workers enough in pay and pension terms.

Conservatives blame worker interest-protecting unions for the noncompetitive nature of U.S. industries. In truth, the unions for the most part failed miserably to even enforce corporate contractual obligations.

Now we have most working people relying on 401(k)s and Social Security, the former woefully inadequate and the latter under assault by conservatives. Teachers and government workers, among the last few to enjoy traditional pensions, are demonized as thugs and leeches. Meanwhile, Romney stuffs his tax-protected IRA (enacted to encourage the working/middle classes to save for retirement) with more than $100,000,000.

I progress through my seventh decade at a loss to understand why we aren't all taking to the streets.

Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by nwr, posted 11-09-2012 5:44 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 53 of 409 (678663)
11-09-2012 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
11-09-2012 11:25 AM


Re: On discrimination
jar writes:

One was whether or not we should get out of Vietnam.
The second key question asked "Our French ally has asked for our support to stop Communist Chinese from invading French Indochina; should we aid our ally?"

You could also have asked,

"We promised to block the recolonization of Asian and African nations by European powers after the war. Should we keep that promise?"


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 11-09-2012 11:25 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 11-09-2012 6:53 PM Omnivorous has responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1198 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 55 of 409 (678670)
11-09-2012 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
11-09-2012 6:53 PM


Re: On discrimination
Yep. We had a real knack for turning nationalists into Communists in those days.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 11-09-2012 6:53 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019