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Author Topic:   Creationism Road Trip
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 14 of 409 (678534)
11-08-2012 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
11-08-2012 6:38 PM


Re: One Day
jar writes:

Who has the larger audience, Fox News or PBS?

Fox News. That is because most people recognize soviet style propaganda even if it is cloaked in soft, classical music and milquetoast tones of voice. They also have no where else to turn if they don't want to hear progressive, collectivist, anti-traditional american values propaganda.

Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 11-08-2012 6:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-08-2012 9:55 PM foreveryoung has responded
 Message 19 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-08-2012 10:20 PM foreveryoung has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 21 of 409 (678545)
11-08-2012 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
11-08-2012 9:55 PM


Re: One Day
jar writes:

You say they recognize soviet style propaganda yet they watch Fox News?

Yes, because it is the only place where they can find an absence of it.

jar writes:

Yes, they certainly want to avoid progress, I believe you are right there.

Not progress; progressive, as in what started back around 1890.

jar writes:

But what anti-traditional American Values are you referencing?

Everything my parents grew up relying on has been mocked daily by the other media outlets. Everyone but FOX is trying to convince their audience that america needs to emulate europe and particularly european socialism. That is exactly the opposite of what america used to be all about. They are also trying to persuade their audience that not permitting the moral filth that is common to europe and San Francisco makes them evil people. This is the kind of values that are anything but traditional american.
[/qs]

Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-08-2012 9:55 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 11-08-2012 11:02 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 30 by Percy, posted 11-09-2012 8:20 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 22 of 409 (678546)
11-08-2012 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by DevilsAdvocate
11-08-2012 10:20 PM


Re: One Day
Um, ok. If promoting equality and liberty for all people is anti-traditional, so be it. Can you put money where your mouth is and tell me what progressive, collectivist, anti-traditionalism means?

Egalitarianism is not equality. Moral anarchy is not Liberty. Collectivist means the state ultimately has the right to your property and what you can do with your life. An example of collectivism is the idea that communally owned farms are better than privately owned farms for the production of the nations food supply.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-08-2012 10:20 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

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 Message 25 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-08-2012 11:53 PM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 27 of 409 (678558)
11-09-2012 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by DevilsAdvocate
11-09-2012 12:03 AM


Re: One Day
The key word is VOLUNTARY. I was talking about forced communal farming. What fearmongering are you talking about. I was only speaking to reality.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-09-2012 12:03 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 11-09-2012 1:25 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 29 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-09-2012 5:30 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 32 by Percy, posted 11-09-2012 8:33 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 35 by jar, posted 11-09-2012 9:09 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 110 of 409 (679989)
11-17-2012 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Percy
11-15-2012 12:34 PM


Re: One Day / Ananias and Sapphira
percy writes:

The point was that the "I've got mine and I'm keeping it" principles of modern American conservatism stand in stark contrast to the teachings of Jesus concerning sharing and community.

That isn't what modern american conservatism is about. It is "I've got mine and I am going to do with it AS I WISH and NOT as the government wishes." What you assume WRONGLY is that the conservative wants to spend his money only on HIMSELF.

Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 11-15-2012 12:34 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 11-17-2012 1:48 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded
 Message 113 by vimesey, posted 11-17-2012 1:53 AM foreveryoung has responded
 Message 132 by Percy, posted 11-17-2012 8:07 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 115 of 409 (679996)
11-17-2012 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by vimesey
11-17-2012 1:53 AM


Re: One Day / Ananias and Sapphira
For one thing: Private business could do all the things you list government as doing for a fraction of the cost and I mean a fraction. Most of the things the government spends money on , most people could care less about and don't need. On the other hand, even though you highlighted the most extreme cases, if you follow the money and what happens to people who are on the receiving end of conservative largesse , you will find a much improved lot over those who have received money from the state that has been forcibly removed from those same conservatives hands.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by vimesey, posted 11-17-2012 1:53 AM vimesey has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(12)
Message 136 of 409 (680059)
11-17-2012 12:42 PM


Faith

I have fought your side of this for years and it is indefensible. I am currently a geology student and the only possible area of the earth for the flood to have occurred is the Hadean/Archean boundary. All of other theories fail to explain all the evidence. The only problem with my theory is the it places the age of the flood at 3.9 billion years ago and with accelerated radioactive decay you have problems with mechanism and with heat dissipation.


Replies to this message:
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foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 144 of 409 (680187)
11-18-2012 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Faith
11-18-2012 1:34 AM


Re: Bible versus Geology
faith writes:

Explanations in terms of an old earth or huge periods of time contradict it.

Why do you say this?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 1:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(2)
Message 178 of 409 (680294)
11-19-2012 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Faith
11-18-2012 11:50 PM


Re: Getting to the details.
faith writes:

Back to the surface of what and from what? I have no idea what you are talking about. Jar was talking about the Vishnu schist at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. I added a remark about the granite that is also there. There is a volcano beneath the canyon, and diagrams show magma intruding into the schist. It is perfectly reasonable to explain its formation by the volcanic heat and the pressure of a two mile deep stack of sediments above.

While 2 miles of sediment may seem like a lot of weight, it is not enough to create the pressures necessary to turn soft sediments into hard schist. It might be enough to turn soft sediments into sedimentary rocks however.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 11-18-2012 11:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:20 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 181 of 409 (680297)
11-19-2012 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:02 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
faith writes:

Yes, the geological column all over the world had to have been formed by the Flood.

Why did it have to be formed by the flood? You cannot think of any other mechanism that would form those layers?

Why is it that dinosaurs are found with their eggs and nests all intact and not scattered all over the world as the flood would have produced? In fact, much of the fossil record contains completely articulated skeletons of various creatures. How could a force as powerful as a worldwide flood drown these animals and have them floating around for a year and then deposit their skeletons in sediments in perfectly articulated form?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:02 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:40 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(3)
Message 183 of 409 (680300)
11-19-2012 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:20 AM


Re: Getting to the details.
faith writes:


Remember the volcano beneath as well as the layers above. And remember also that those were very very wet sediments. Adds a bit of weight.

Volcanic heat cannot turn thousands of feet of sediment into metasedimentary schist. It will either melt it and assimilate it into the magma or it will metamorphose only a thin layer just where the contact with the magma is.

As far as the weight of wet sediments go, water has a specific gravity of 1 gram/cm3. The average sedimentary rock has a specific gravity of 2.5 grams /cm3. Therefore, 2 miles of wet sediments would have less weight than 2 miles of dry sedimentary rock.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:20 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(5)
Message 186 of 409 (680303)
11-19-2012 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:40 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Hey Friend. I was right where you were as little as 2 years ago. Little by little, I gained enough knowledge in pursuing my geology degree that I had to give up my belief in a worldwide flood that covered all the mountains 4300 years ago. Even before I did that, I adjusted the time scale to almost one million years and made a wide accommodation for a different interpretation of genealogies. I tried every conceivable way to make it all fit however loosely to a YEC interpretation of Genesis. I can continue to break down your arguments into their separate components and show how they don't work, but I fear the risk of alienating you as many did me when they tried to show me the same thing. If you can take it as honesty criticism then I will continue.

Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:40 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:54 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 190 of 409 (680307)
11-19-2012 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:54 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Why do you say 4300 years for the time of the flood is a biblical time scale?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:59 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(2)
Message 194 of 409 (680311)
11-19-2012 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:59 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
faith writes:

4300 years AGO, or about 2300 BC, I said it wrong once. It's derived from the ages of the patriarchs up to Noah.

Ok. That patriarchal linage only supports the time of a flood. It does not necessarily specify the scientific nature of the flood. I will agree that there was a very large local flood near the black sea and the caspian sea about the time the bible indicates the flood of noah. These peoples were displaced and migrated to the first known area of western civilization...the sumerian empire.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:59 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 1:06 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 196 of 409 (680313)
11-19-2012 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
11-19-2012 1:06 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
How did you come to that conclusion?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 1:06 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 1:27 AM foreveryoung has responded

    
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