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Author Topic:   Evening and Morning
Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 4192 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003

Message 16 of 21 (475717)
07-17-2008 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by bluescat48
07-17-2008 6:10 AM

Re: Debt to an Atheist
bluescat48 writes:

The point is that whoever compiled Gen 1:1-5 did not know that the earth rotated, per the above:

"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night."

No, you missed the point. THe point is that without the sun and the rotation of earth on its own axis, what then separates night from day?

With my eyes there's nothing you can do that I can't see through.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by bluescat48, posted 07-17-2008 6:10 AM bluescat48 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by bluescat48, posted 07-18-2008 8:41 AM Itachi Uchiha has not yet responded

Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 4192 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003

Message 17 of 21 (475723)
07-17-2008 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by sl33w
07-17-2008 4:22 PM

Re: To Peurto Rican friend
sl33w writes:

You Atheists have no "data" and so that is your only line of defense to claim that Bible believers have no data.

Lets take a look at a little piece of the data we have but first, lets start with some assumptions.

Assumption-Your a creationist that believes genesis as it is written

Assumption-I'll assume the bible is literal just like you do

Assumption-Theres only one creation account in Genesis and it is Chap 1

Now lets start with the data

1)The sun was created on the forth day

2)A day in planet earth means the 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness (If you live close to the equator as I do. If not youll experience drastic changes of light and darkness hours in summer and winter the closer you get to the poles)

3)There is no possible way of concluding based on a literal biblical interpretation of genesis that the first three days wee 24 hr periods. They could be 48 hr periods, 96 hr periods, years etc. Saying they were also 24 hr periods is just pure speculation and dishonest.

THis of course raises more questions

1) What was the source of light for the first three days?

2) What separated day from night? Did God have a flashlight or something he just turned on and off when he felt like it?

This is what we have from an honest reading of genesis assuming it is literal truth. The rest, is just people's imagination.

sl33w writes:

All encyclopedias document many nations destroyed, that God predicted He would destroy in the Bible.

You mean the old testament genocides. Oh yeah. You should feel very proud of that don't you? I'm gonna recommend you a book. It's called t\The Bible Unearthed. Go check it out at Amazon or something and see what modern archeology has to say about that statement.

sl33w writes:

The Ottoman Empire surrendered "unconditionally" to the British General, Edmond Allenby, on Nov. 29, 1918.

I'm sorry I got a bit lost here. THis proves exactly what?

sl33w writes:

Jesus had John write this in AD 67, Revelation 16; "Armageddon."

So are you saying that the surrender of the ottoman empire to the British was armageddon? I thought Christians were sti waiting for this one.

sl33w writes:

Can you Atheists match anything like that?

Well an atheist was the one responsible for developing the windows software youre using right now to make such contemptible statements. Atheist doctor sequenced DNA. Skeptic literature is much better on purely literary grounds than the bible. Take Salman Rushdie for example and compare him to Tim Lahaye's crappy novels for example. I could go on forever.

With my eyes there's nothing you can do that I can't see through.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by sl33w, posted 07-17-2008 4:22 PM sl33w has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by sl33w, posted 07-18-2008 3:03 AM Itachi Uchiha has not yet responded

Posts: 5519
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5

Message 18 of 21 (475732)
07-17-2008 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by sl33w
07-17-2008 4:49 PM

Re: Reply to Ramoss
The verb "he created" is recorded, "ARBY."

You're sure that you don't have that confused with "roast beef sandwich?" You might be a prisoner of the Maori, 33.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by sl33w, posted 07-17-2008 4:49 PM sl33w has not yet responded

Member (Idle past 4309 days)
Posts: 53
Joined: 05-23-2008

Message 19 of 21 (475753)
07-18-2008 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Itachi Uchiha
07-17-2008 6:22 PM

Re: To Peurto Rican friend
Hello, "Rico!"

I am impressed that you spent so much of your valuable time to reply to me.

[It would have been more meaningful if you had stopped to think before replying.]

To: My illiterate Puerto Rican Friend;

I am amazed at all of the “false assumptions” you have made from my logical, grammatically correct, post.

First of all, scientists do not believe in assumptions, but Atheists major in the speculative and unreal.

Quote: “Your (should read, “you are”) a creationist to believe genesis as it is written.”

CONTRA: I dogmatically proclaimed my belief in a “Parable,” and this means “not creationist theory.” You should take grade school reading comprehension lessons.

Quote: “I’ll assume the Bible is literal just like you do.”

CONTRA: My “parable” means “not literal.” You should learn to read.

Quote: “There is only one creation account in Genesis and it is in Chap 1.”

CONTRA: “These (meaning, “here”; Gen 2.4) generations of the heavens (Governments) and the earth (nation) in the creating (ptcp.) of them, in day doing He Is Gods (MYHLA, HWHY)” – Gen 2.4.
NOTE: Compare Gen 1.1, second creation account (for those who can read).

Quote: “Data – 1) Sun on 4th day.”

CONTRA: Gen 1.1, “light” included “sun.” in “heavens.” That is what “heavens” means, sun, moon, stars.
Gen 1.3, “there was light.”
Gen 1.5, “day = light.”
Gen 1.6, “spreading” (firmament) = “heavens” (governments) = “light.”
Gen 1.8, “heavens” = Jacob, wife, and sons – Gen 37.9-10.

Quote: “3) no 24 hour periods.” That is what my parable said.

Quote: “(1) What was light for 3 days?” Same as now, “God.”

Quote: “(2) What separated Day from Night?” Sinful man! “Day” was with blessing of God, Night was separation from God (as is now the case with the churches).

Quote: “OT genocides.”

CONTRA: Rome fell AD 476, Rev 8.13; Antioch fell AD 632, Rev 9a; Constantinople fell, AD 1453, Rev 9b; Papal States fell, Sept. 20, 1870, Rev 10.7, 11.15; 14.8, 16.10-11; 17.16-17; 18.21. First World War, Rev 16.17-21.

The men “with their heads screwed on straight” had documented this, before it happened, when it happened, and after it happened.

Quote: “I though Christians were looking for Armageddon?”

CONTRA: That is true. But then, “Christ” and “Christians” are not in the Bible, but are only from the Pope and the First Dark Ages.
“In many speakings of them, sin, he is not absent, and holding lips of him [one] from wisdom” – Prov 10.19.

“waterless clouds being carried along, unfruitful autumn trees, twice having died, having been uprooted wild waves of sea¸clouds being carried along, unfruitful autumn trees, twice having died, having been uprooted, wild of sea¸ casting up foam, the shame of themselves, wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness into eternity has been reserved” – Jude 12-13.


Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note: 24 hour suspension given because of this message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 07-17-2008 6:22 PM Itachi Uchiha has not yet responded

Member (Idle past 2766 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007

Message 20 of 21 (475774)
07-18-2008 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Itachi Uchiha
07-17-2008 5:45 PM

Re: Debt to an Atheist
No, you missed the point. THe point is that without the sun and the rotation of earth on its own axis, what then separates night from day?

That is not the point I was making. What I mean is that if the writer knew what caused the day & night, the earth's rotation, then the account
of creation would have had to have had the sun created first.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 07-17-2008 5:45 PM Itachi Uchiha has not yet responded

Inactive Member

Message 21 of 21 (475838)
07-18-2008 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mespo
12-12-2007 2:09 PM

God Did It
Mespo writes:

In the creation account of Genesis, the author manages to get through 3 days before the Sun and Moon are created to light the Earth. If there is a Bible literalist in the house, I would like to know how the phrase "And the evening and the morning were the..." can be used in the first 3 days when there is no physical reference point that a viewer can use to watch an evening and then a morning.

In other words, doesn't an evening an a morning require a rotating planetary orb with an atmosphere to scatter the the light from an illuminating source before that light source appears above the horizontal plane of said orb? (whew)

No problem. The clue to the mystery is in verse 2 where we read, ".....and the Spirit of God moved.....

1. The omnipotent Holy Spirit of God is the multipresent member of the Trinity which/who goes throughout the universe doing what Jehovah wants done.

2. The reason the sun and other bodies of our Solar System where created subsequent to the earth is likely that in order to do/design what God wanted for planet earth required intense heat in order to separate the waters from the earth in order to create a suitable atmosphere for ultimate life on earth as well as to create the desired land topography, dryness etc.

3. Likely the Holy Spirit lightened the whole earth; both East and West hemispheres simultaneously for the day and darkened both for the night, the length of which would be determined by design for the purpose of creation and which would be an undetermined length of time, unknown to us.

4. This would necessitate variable time lengths for each day, relative to the amount of heat and light needed for each stage of creation up through day three, the plant day/era.

The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mespo, posted 12-12-2007 2:09 PM Mespo has not yet responded

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