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Author Topic:   Ann Coulter (Is she hateful?)
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8549
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(5)
Message 241 of 274 (679928)
11-16-2012 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
11-16-2012 12:06 AM


Thus the First Amendment
Even BEING a Communist in America, where that ideology is in direct contradiction to the philosophical foundations of our nation, certainly can be thought of as traitorous in itself.
Joe McCarthy would be so proud of you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 11-16-2012 12:06 AM Faith has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 242 of 274 (679930)
11-16-2012 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Dr Adequate
11-15-2012 7:34 AM


Our country Doctor rambles:
Yes, apart from his belated support for gay marriage and the abolition of DADT, Obama is exactly a conservative from 50 years ago. Back in the good old days.
But right-wing rhetoric has shifted so far that Eisenhower and Nixon and Ford and Reagan would nowadays be considered Evil Communist Marxists Who Want To Destroy America if they stood on their policies today. Obama continues their tradition, but you are so far right that you can't appreciate that from a historical perspective America has just re-elected a moderate Republican.
Just thinking now about the campaign ads that were basically oriented towards the tone-deaf Republicans and Romney towards women ("The War On Women!!") that came out during this campaign. The last ones were all about changing your clocks back 1 hour as Daylight Savings Time ended November 4th, with the added caution not to set your clocks back 60 years!
Sure, the tax brackets in the Eisenhower years would be nice to have again. But the Ozzie & Harriet cream-of-wheat white patriarchal family shit is not something we want to see be dominant again.
The bridge at midnight trembles....

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


(5)
Message 243 of 274 (679932)
11-16-2012 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
11-16-2012 2:43 AM


Re: conservative madness
Faith writes:
I don't know much about you but if you're young and you're in school and you have an academic interest in any of this stuff, I've been hoping and praying that the younger generation would get inspired to study history in great great depth from a Christian and Conservative worldview.
I am hoping instead that the younger generation studies to this great depth from an open mind. Like a blank slate. They should be SAVED from the brainwashing of established religions. A brainwashed viewpoint, no matter how well-studied, is still a brainwashed viewpoint.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 244 of 274 (679934)
11-16-2012 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by NoNukes
11-16-2012 1:01 PM


Re: Ann's hyperbole / what is treachery
NoNukes writes:
But be that as it may, there ARE ideas on the liberal side that could fairly be classed as traitorous from a traditional understanding of American history, and she's nailed it. Some things can't just be politely treated as a mere difference of opinion.
If this is true, then you ought to be able to name some of these ideas.
Hell, let's see JUST ONE!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4441
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 245 of 274 (679935)
11-16-2012 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
11-16-2012 2:54 AM


Re: Ann's hyperbole / what is treachery
faith writes:
But be that as it may, there ARE ideas on the liberal side that could fairly be classed as traitorous from a traditional understanding of American history, and she's nailed it. Some things can't just be politely treated as a mere difference of opinion.
How about giving us some examples instead of running away every time someone asks for actual examples of your accusations.
Gee whillikers, foreveryoung, we've got a whole gaggle of the Thought Police on our trail now. I can't take the time to figure out what they're howling about right now
So now we're thought police?
You are the one throwing around accusations of traitorous ideas, faith.
As for hyperbole I'd certainly class how she used the phrase "physical intimidation" as that, to stand for using the execution of a traitor as an example and a deterrent.
Why stop there, faith? The obvious next step is to execute a few liberals (traitors) as an example and deterrent for impure thoughts. After all, some things can't just be politely treated as a mere difference of opinion.
The America you want is my scariest nightmare! It brings to mind images of Iran in the 1980s when people were executed for impure thoughts, images of all the totalitarian regimes of the 20th century, when FEAR was part of everyday life.
What you want goes against everything good America has ever stood for!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 246 of 274 (679940)
11-16-2012 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by 1.61803
11-16-2012 12:08 PM


Professing conservatism.
Face it republicans you defend her because she says the things your thinking. You all clap eachother on the back and knowingly nod in your agreement of causing harm or wounds with words.
But back off when some wingnut actually does act.
I think this generalization is unfair. It's the other side of the coin from the sentiments foreveryoung and Faith have expressed in this thread, and it is equally far off base.
Let's be frank. We all smell the sweaty ape under the tarp.
The stuff Faith is spouting off here is not standard conservative rhetoric. This isn't the kind of thing you'd ever hear Romney or McCain say. Conservatives believe that liberals are wrong. Some even accept that liberals are principled but wrong. But 'Liberals are all traitors' is pure wing-nut stuff.
In reality, it is actually possible to be against gay marriage without believing that gays and lesbians should be dragged behind a pick up truck or isolated in a compound with an electric fence. Most people would find jokes advocating killing a political opponent to cross the line. Yet some people pray earnestly for the death of their least favorite Supreme Court Justice. That's wing nut.
Conservatives are people who oppose O'bama because they favor small government and disagree with him on social or fiscal policy. Wing-nuts think O'bama is a Muslim AND the anti-Christ.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by 1.61803, posted 11-16-2012 12:08 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 247 of 274 (679945)
11-16-2012 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by xongsmith
11-16-2012 1:59 PM


teach open-minded skepticism, logic and critical thinking
Hi xongsmith
I am hoping instead that the younger generation studies to this great depth from an open mind. Like a blank slate. They should be SAVED from the brainwashing of established religions. A brainwashed viewpoint, no matter how well-studied, is still a brainwashed viewpoint.
Indeed, and a history that is not the biased viewpoint of the victors of history. The history of native americans and their contribution to the concepts and ideas that went into the constitution, for example; the scandalous history of intentionally spreading sickness among native tribes to kill them off, for another. Good and bad not just the rosy glow of what you would like to believe occurred.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4441
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(3)
Message 248 of 274 (679946)
11-16-2012 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by RAZD
11-16-2012 3:46 PM


Re: teach open-minded skepticism, logic and critical thinking
RAZD writes:
the scandalous history of intentionally spreading sickness among native tribes to kill them off, for another. Good and bad not just the rosy glow of what you would like to believe occurred.
[sarcasm]Good grief, RAZD! You liberals are always trying to tear down America. At least we gave them blankets. [/sarcasm]

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by RAZD, posted 11-16-2012 3:46 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 249 of 274 (679948)
11-16-2012 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by foreveryoung
11-14-2012 11:46 PM


Re: scale and location
Hi foreveryoung,
Look at it this way. Break the country up into percentiles with the 10 % who hold the most liberal values at 1 and the 10 % with the most conservative value at 10. I am probably at 8 very religious conservatives above me ...
So between your 8 and my 2 we disagree about whether the people between us are liberal or conservative. According to your breakdown that would be 60% of americans.
... and ayn rand types economically above me as well. ...
You mean those who accept pure fiction as an economic theory? Do you know than Rand lived on Social Security at the end?
... . The fact that fordham is religious doesn't make it conservative except on perhaps a few points like abortion and marriage. I wouldn't be surprised if fordham supports choice and gay marriage or believes the government should have no say in it.
Curiously, you are assuming positions you have no basis for assuming ... except for your personal perception that they are liberal.
Fordham being historically a catholic and jesuit university that espouses catholic and jesuit
quote:
The Mission of the University
Fordham University, the Jesuit University of New York, is committed to the discovery of Wisdom and the transmission of Learning, through research and through undergraduate, graduate and professional education of the highest quality. Guided by its Catholic and Jesuit traditions, Fordham fosters the intellectual, moral and religious development of its students and prepares them for leadership in a global society.
As a Catholic University . . .
Fordham affirms the complementary roles of faith and reason in the pursuit of wisdom and learning. The University encourages the growth of a life of faith consonant with moral and intellectual development. ...
Fordham gives special attention to the study of the living tradition of Catholicism, and it provides a place where religious traditions may interact with each other and with contemporary cultures.
As a Jesuit University . . .
Fordham draws its inspiration from the dual heritage of Christian Humanism and Ignatian Spirituality, and consequently sees all disciplines as potential paths to God. ...
Given the emphasis on Catholic and Jesuit teaching, I would be rather surprised if they supported abortion ...
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : 60%

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by foreveryoung, posted 11-14-2012 11:46 PM foreveryoung has replied

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4441
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 250 of 274 (679949)
11-16-2012 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by RAZD
11-16-2012 4:21 PM


Re: scale and location
RAZD writes:
Given the emphasis on Catholic and Jesuit teaching, I would be rather surprised if they supported abortion ...
I'll bet their insurance carrier doesn't pay for birth control for their employees, either. I'm not sure about Viagra, though.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by RAZD, posted 11-16-2012 4:21 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 251 of 274 (680005)
11-17-2012 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by NoNukes
11-16-2012 2:51 PM


Re: Professing conservatism.
Well, I'm not sure how to parse 1.61803's post. If he means that all Republicans defend Coulter, then he is clearly wrong. If he means that all those Republicans who do defend her are in sympathy with her, then he may well be right.
And I have no idea what he thinks the word "insipid" means, but I'm sure it doesn't mean what he thinks it means.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(4)
Message 252 of 274 (680028)
11-17-2012 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Faith
11-16-2012 7:30 AM


Re: woops, they're in high suspicion mode again
Gee whillikers, foreveryoung, we've got a whole gaggle of the Thought Police on our trail now.
Wait, unpack this for me. Tell you that we disagree with your ideas, that's "the Thought Police", but telling us that our ideas are tantamount to treason against the country, and that a few guys ought to swing from yard-arms to scare us into silence, that's not? How do you make that make sense?
Perhaps I'd say something like: if it's "progressive" to you then it's most likely "subversive" to us.
And you don't think calling our positions "subversive" is "the Thought Police"? Explain to me how that works for you.
Back eventually no doubt to face the PC gang.
Just to unpack this, what you're calling "political correctness" is the position that in America, we don't execute people in order to intimidate others from expressing completely conventional, mainstream views. (Or really, any views.)

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 253 of 274 (680029)
11-17-2012 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Faith
11-16-2012 3:42 AM


Re: Ann's hyperbole / what is treachery
As I've reviewed my own posts over the last page or two I see how I've been struggling to get my thoughts together on this subject. When I finally do then I sound articulate. Took a lot of half-baked verbiage to get there though and I'm not sure I've yet made the necessary points.
I saw upthread you got burned for this a little, and I just wanted to express an alternate view; this is another example of the thoughtfulness and reflection that I've always enjoyed in many of your posts. It's to your credit, IMO, even if others may consider it baby steps.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 638 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(5)
Message 254 of 274 (680116)
11-17-2012 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
11-15-2012 1:42 PM


Re: Ann's hyperbole
You want to talk about "physical intimdation". I will relay something that happened to a friend of mine. She's gay, and when she was visiting home to SC with her girlfriend, she and her girl friend got assulted.. she got a cracked skull, and her girlfriend was in a coma for 10 days.
At the trial the people who did it claimed they were doing 'the lords work'.
Is that 'physical intimidation' enough for you?

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1530 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(2)
Message 255 of 274 (680372)
11-19-2012 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by NoNukes
11-16-2012 2:51 PM


Re: Professing conservatism.
I think this generalization is unfair.
Agreed, I retract that statement as written, I meant to mean some republicans
In reality, it is actually possible to be against gay marriage without believing that gays and lesbians should be dragged behind a pick up truck or isolated in a compound with an electric fence.
Yes it is, but is it possible to believe that American's of all races, religions and sexual orientation should be afforded equal civil rights under the law, and be against gay marriage?
Let's be frank. We all smell the sweaty ape under the tarp.
Yes we do. That's why I feel that identifying with and defending hate speech while at the same time abhorring violence is kind of dis-ingenious. To avoid this conflict best, one can only like Ann Colture in the presence of like minded republicans. Otherwise one might come off as a hateful bigot. That wouldn't do. It would be like saying in the presence of like minded republicans something like 47 percent of Americans are refuse not worthy of consideration.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Replies to this message:
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