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Author Topic:   States petition for secession
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 30 of 384 (679385)
11-13-2012 4:19 PM


Sounds like a few on the right are just employing some of Saul D. Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."
Folks shouldn't object to that, should they?

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 63 of 384 (688828)
01-25-2013 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Dr Adequate
01-25-2013 4:31 AM


Re: Seccession
the more economically successful blue states.
Such as California?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-25-2013 4:31 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 76 of 384 (688842)
01-25-2013 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
01-25-2013 10:05 PM


Re: Secession
I think we'd do fine if we separated. Take the scientists with you if they want to go. It would be easier on all concerned not to have the constant fighting.
Bullshit.
The scientists are what keeps us advancing.
You just don't like them because they tell you a lot of your religious beliefs are wrong (and they are).
Try running a modern economy without them and you're a third-world cesspool.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 01-25-2013 10:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 01-25-2013 11:03 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 79 of 384 (688845)
01-25-2013 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
01-25-2013 11:03 PM


Re: Secession
I'm not interested in "advancing." Whoever came up with this bizarre notion that society must be continually "advancing?" To what?
Societies that aren't advancing are likely to be declining. You can have that, I'm not interested. I'm all for technological advances, all the way to the stars and beyond.
That's the tenet of Progressivism which is what the red region is to be free of.
Nonsense.
First, advancement is a human goal--each generation wants things to be better for their successors.
And no, the red states don't want to become a religious backwater. You can get that throughout the Middle East, and it is not a desirable condition. The 7th century is not all it was cracked up to be. Nor were the Dark Ages.
I want a STABLE society, a stable civilized CHRISTIAN society ruled by the gospel of Christ. Any ideas how to split the nation to make that possible?
Yes, you take two or three counties in the bible belt and make them your own. You can be the next Amish. Just leave the rest of us alone. Deal?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 01-25-2013 11:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 135 of 384 (688945)
01-26-2013 8:01 PM


A Puritan state? Bah!
The problem with a Puritan state or nation is that the leaders inevitably would try to tell everyone else how to run their lives.
Small examples: blue laws. Larger examples: wanting to see and control what goes on in other peoples' bedrooms, and forcing their ideas of "what is right" on everyone else; trying to forbid contraception, divorce etc.
Its none of their damn business either in our current society or in a Puritan state or nation!
As Robert Heinlein, one of our greatest philosophers, noted:
The correct way to punctuate a sentence that states: "Of course it is none of my business, but -- " is to place a period after the word "but." Don't use excessive force in supplying such a moron with a period. Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 140 of 384 (688950)
01-26-2013 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Faith
01-26-2013 8:13 PM


Re: The Puritan state
Well, can at least move BORDERS.
And if you move a border in such a way that has people within that border who don't believe the way you do?
Then what? What if they just tell you to take a flying leap?
You folks will just not be able to resist trying to legislating your beliefs into law, to be enforced by the power of the state. You're trying that enough now, while the Puritan movement is but a tiny minority.
The only way you'll be able to require everyone adhere to your beliefs is through force. Think you're up to it?
A couple of additional quotes from our great philosopher, Robert Heinlein:
Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
Of all the strange crimes that human beings have legislated out of nothing, blasphemy is the most amazing--with obscenity and indecent exposure fighting it out for second and third place.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 8:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 8:47 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 144 of 384 (688962)
01-26-2013 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Faith
01-26-2013 8:47 PM


Re: The Puritan state
There is no idea of forcing anyone to do anything in any of this.
Of course there is!
Theocracies are always about force. They can't survive any other way.
Just look at the Middle East today. Just look at the Church during the time when they could assume control, much of two millennia. Look at northern Ireland. Just look at any theocracy anywhere, going back to the bible.
And what you are advocating is a theocracy, where almost everyone believes as you do, or enough do so you can take control. How much diversity and tolerance do you expect? What are the minority rights? Say, the right to buy liquor on Sunday? The right to work on Sunday, or to open your store? The right to contraception? How is your ideal Puritan society going to deal with that?
I suggest, from what you are posting, that it will be dealt with in the old fashioned way--believe what we say or get out, or we will kill you.
I certainly have no faith in the tender mercies of a theocracy--any theocracy!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 8:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 10:56 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 146 of 384 (688965)
01-26-2013 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Faith
01-26-2013 10:56 PM


Re: The Puritan state
I disagree.
Fair enough. Show me where I am wrong.
Show me a theocracy that encourages minority religions, for example.
Saudi Arabia?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 10:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 11:26 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 149 of 384 (688970)
01-26-2013 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
01-26-2013 11:26 PM


Re: The Puritan state
So the Protestants in northern Ireland are not resorting to violence?
But let's try an exercise: is there currently any theocracy that does allow minority rights, particularly in regards to religion? (Except for Israel, which as far as I can think is the only one.)
Any ideas?
Edited by Coyote, : grammar

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 11:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 11:34 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 151 of 384 (688973)
01-26-2013 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
01-26-2013 11:34 PM


Re: The Puritan state
You've bought the Catholic propaganda about Northern Ireland. It's always the Catholics that instigate the violence. Sure the Protestants may fight back. The Protestants have no desire to rule the world but the Vatican does.
The vatican is getting pretty toothless now-a-days. Are you really fighting that battle that has been over for centuries? (See The Enlightenment.)
What do you mean by "minority rights?"
What you and your small band of nutcases enjoy in the US that you wouldn't enjoy in much of the rest of the world, particularly the Middle East.
And what I believe you would deny to others the minute you thought you could get away with it.
And by the way there is no such thing as a Protstant theocracy in the world right now.
Good! That's a good start! Now if we could get rid of all the other theocracies I'd be much happier.
The minute someone starts telling me I have to live according to their beliefs I start getting hives, and am apt to become very surly.
Edited by Coyote, : grammar again

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 11:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 12:08 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 153 of 384 (688978)
01-27-2013 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
01-27-2013 12:08 AM


Re: The Puritan state
Why not let Christians have a state to ourselves?
Find a deserted island or desert somewhere and have at it.
But the days when you can force your beliefs on others have long since passed.
And that goes for all the rest of the theocrats as well.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 12:08 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 343 of 384 (689539)
01-31-2013 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Theodoric
01-31-2013 9:22 PM


Re: 50-50-50-50
So if not 63%, what rate does Phil Mickelson pay in California?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 345 of 384 (689542)
01-31-2013 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by ramoss
01-31-2013 11:12 PM


Re: 50-50-50-50
Why did he claim nearly 63%, and why are he and a number of other professional athletes leaving?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 350 of 384 (689558)
02-01-2013 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by Theodoric
01-31-2013 11:53 PM


Booming?
Do You Live In A Death Spiral State?
Do You Live In A Death Spiral State?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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