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Author Topic:   Have some scientists been too fanatical?
sinamatic
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 67
From: Traverse City, MI usa
Joined: 03-10-2006


Message 91 of 101 (680145)
11-17-2012 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by nwr
11-17-2012 7:07 PM


My disagreement there is with those words "too fanatical." I don't know what exactly you mean by that. My way of looking at it is to compare the amount of hype in what Christians say about atheists with the amount of hype in what atheists say about Christians. And by that statement, atheists look relatively mild in their criticisms. I grant that some of them say quite harsh things, but that still looks mild in comparison with what some Christians say about atheists.
Yeah I'm not going to argue with that because I can see how that might very well be true.

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 Message 81 by nwr, posted 11-17-2012 7:07 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 456 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 92 of 101 (680150)
11-17-2012 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by sinamatic
11-17-2012 7:57 PM


...aethiest...
Is there a particular reason you have chosen to consistently misspell atheist this way? I'm curious if you are trying to make a point of some kind.
Capt.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 93 of 101 (680153)
11-18-2012 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by roxrkool
11-17-2012 11:24 AM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
Thanks for the answer. Also Dr. A.\
I'm not going to argue with you since you are sure the WHY factor is important and explained in the old earth model, and all I can do at the moment is doubt it, which isn't very helpful, and it's no doubt offensive and insulting as well, which just goes with the territory of this debate unfortunately, sorry about that.
But I did want to say that this idea that anything FORMED in the Flood misrepresents YEC thinking. Nobody claims corals, reefs, limestone, or ANYTHING "formed" in the Flood. All the Flood did was TRANSPORT stuff that was already formed, or in the case of rock transported the sediments that then solidified where they were deposited.
A tangent of course, just had to mention it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by roxrkool, posted 11-17-2012 11:24 AM roxrkool has replied

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 94 of 101 (680173)
11-18-2012 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by sinamatic
11-17-2012 3:46 PM


how can science explain what or why someone thinks a thought or makes a choice?
That would be the science of Psychology.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


(2)
Message 95 of 101 (680176)
11-18-2012 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
11-18-2012 12:28 AM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
You are mistaken, Faith. Some YEC do in fact suggests those things. The YEC, including you, can't even come on this board and lay out a comprehensive and consistent YEC model that you all can mostly agree on. That is by far not the case for us OE geos. We quibble about whether skarn is a rock type or an alteration and each other's interpretations, and other details, but the big picture is consistent and laid out for all to see.
If YEC was true, then it would be those geologists who are finding the natural resources. Financial success is blind to ideology. We produce results and therefore, we get the funding.

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 Message 96 by cavediver, posted 11-18-2012 10:26 AM roxrkool has not replied
 Message 98 by Boof, posted 11-18-2012 8:13 PM roxrkool has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(1)
Message 96 of 101 (680181)
11-18-2012 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by roxrkool
11-18-2012 9:39 AM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
That is by far not the case for us OE geos.
And just to stress, Rox, that of course you OE geos encompass geologists in every university, mining and oil company around the world, across every religion, across every nationality - all of you in practically 100% (to 3 sig fig) agreement.
That vs the minority fundementalist element of just one religion, and even amongst whom you can find virtually no level of agreement. Faith certainly has her work cut out for her

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 97 of 101 (680188)
11-18-2012 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by sinamatic
11-17-2012 4:15 PM


nwr didn't even type the words "big bang".

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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Boof
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 99
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


(2)
Message 98 of 101 (680246)
11-18-2012 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by roxrkool
11-18-2012 9:39 AM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
roxtool writes:
If YEC was true, then it would be those geologists who are finding the natural resources. Financial success is blind to ideology. We produce results and therefore, we get the funding.
Exactly. Further to your example upthread (which Faith handwaved away saying the fossils occur in the same places in both OE and YE 'models'), I have been personally involved with numerous exploration companies which commonly use various forms of radiometric dating to help identify new or unrecognised terrains for mineral exploration. In one instance radiometric dating of a granitoid played a major part in a significant copper discovery. According to the creationists radiometric dating doesn't work - either it's all a conspiracy or it's all incompetance. Yet somehow multinational miners around the world keep using this (and all of the other fundamental tools to modern geology) and they keep making money out of it.
You said it so well: financial success is blind to ideology.

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 Message 95 by roxrkool, posted 11-18-2012 9:39 AM roxrkool has replied

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


(1)
Message 99 of 101 (680259)
11-18-2012 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Boof
11-18-2012 8:13 PM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
Excellent example!
We have various intrusions in our mining district and surrounding districts, but the ones associated with Cu mineralization are the 110 Ma quartz monzonitic intrusions rather than the Tertiary aged ones. Finding and identifying those are part of our exploration program. Not to mention the correct stratigraphic units: Mississippian shale and Pennsylvanian limestone.
In addition, we age date our rhyolite flows/intrusions to help us recognize significant faults associated with mineralization, in fault genesis/reconstruction, or even identify rhyolites that may be associated with gold.
It works because we keep finding more metal.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 100 of 101 (680397)
11-19-2012 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Faith
11-17-2012 2:20 AM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
This sort of thing is said all the time but it makes no sense to me. I assume that particular fossils could orient a person looking for minerals or oil by their position in the strata just as well from a creationist point of view as an evolutionist point of view.
Not so.
"But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationism. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question. "From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ," One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him."--Glenn Morton
Creationism just doesn't work.

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Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 101 of 101 (680437)
11-19-2012 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Taq
11-19-2012 12:40 PM


Re: Finding oil or minerals
Creationism just doesn't work.
In fact, creationism blows up in their face.

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 Message 100 by Taq, posted 11-19-2012 12:40 PM Taq has not replied

  
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