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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 6.8


(2)
Message 283 of 352 (916559)
03-06-2024 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Phat
03-06-2024 12:29 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
It simply means having a method of screening desirable s from undesirables.
Interesting. Who decides what is "undesirable?" How does a person become "undesirable?"
Also interesting is the specific language you use. Not just the choice of the word "undesirable," but "an undesirable" or "undesirables." Your language implies that these are objects, things, not people.
There are many terror groups that seek to harm the US.
Curiously, this has never even once been the result of immigrants illegally crossing the US border. Even the 9/11 hijackers had legal visas (some of which I think were expired, but that still means they entered legally).
Most (read: nearly ALL) mass shootings and other terror attacks in the US are the acts of US citizens. Not even naturalized immigrants, but natural-born US citizens.

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 12:29 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Theodoric, posted 03-06-2024 4:14 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 289 of 352 (916565)
03-06-2024 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:26 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
We are too soft on crimes against property.
Serious question.
Is your goal to punish people for committing crimes, or to reduce the incidence of crime?

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:56 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 6.8


(4)
Message 295 of 352 (916571)
03-06-2024 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Phat
03-06-2024 2:56 PM


Re: The Problem With Excessive Government
Mostly the latter, though organized crime needs a swift kick in the teeth.
That was kind of a trick question. Punishment is intended to prevent crime. If there is no crime, there should be no need for punishment. It's supposed to be a deterrent...unless you also get an emotional dose of dopamine from seeing transgressors suffer. I'd challenge you to take some time to consider your feelings and motivations on criminal justice.
If you actually want to reduce shoplifting and other property crimes...would it surprise you to know that "getting tougher" does not correlated with a reduction in crime?
The causes of shoplifting and other forms of physical theft are well-known. Poverty. Income inequality. Desperation.
Massive inflation and economic suffering lead directly to increased property crime. You can imprison people for longer - it wont affect that increase much. It'll cost you more tax dollars though, to deal with enforcement and prosecution and incarceration.
Why the focus on punishment, when it's the least effective way to combat crime? When the better solution for literally everyone - for your property rights, for your tax bill, for the lives of people who might be driven to steal - is literally better welfare programs and more progressive taxation?

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Phat, posted 03-06-2024 2:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 03-07-2024 8:14 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 349 of 352 (916686)
03-09-2024 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Phat
03-09-2024 12:11 PM


Re: Fantasy and Reality
Assuming for a moment that I live in fantasy, what should I do? I refuse to drink any kool-aid.
Everyone has drunk some amount of kool-aid.
If you want to drink less kool-aid (which is a goal I wholeheartedly endorse, literally and figuratively - thats just too much sugar), you need to critically examine your existing beliefs. Not only new assertions other people make - you have to critically examine what you already believe.
My Niece wants a younger option.
That seems more than reasonable, but here we are.
My conservative friend says that there is only one truth.
He's right - there is only one truth. The truth is what the facts are. The question is simply how your beliefs match up against true facts...and how they don't.
What do you think you know, and how do you think you know it?

“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Phat, posted 03-09-2024 12:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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