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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
Phat
Member
Posts: 15697
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 61 of 171 (888532)
09-20-2021 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by AZPaul3
09-19-2021 4:09 PM


Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
Why thanks, Arizona Paul! I'm wondering if I should stay active today also. I had to work yesterday and didn't get much EvC time to communicate.

Come to think of it I DID find a couple of your comments in other threads worthy of rebuttal. I can't seem to let sleeping dogs lie.

from Message 106

AZPaul3 writes:

It(The Bible) should go in that big green bin out back.


Seeing as how you think that all Gods,gods, and religious mythos solely originate in our collective imaginations gleaned from a dusty old book I can see your point. You are traditionally a vocal anti-theist.
  • PaulK is an atheist who nevertheless entertains the mythos-derived ideologies and debates them in good faith. Honesty is very important to PaulK.
  • Jar insists that he is a believer yet stops at the place where logic, reason, and reality stop. He simply can't understand how the Christian Culture Of Ignorance (CCoI) can be honest with themselves when they clearly make their God up! If true, this observation proves that I am as crazy as a bedbug. I spend as much time talking to God each day as I am typing this reply. Never did that with Santa Claus and even at a young age, fantasy never overrode my basic intuition that Mom and Dad had a lot to do with Santa!

    So let's examine AZPauls idea of "God".

    AZPaul3 writes:

    Your bible wouldn't know women's nature and psychology if it got kicked in its ham-fisted misogynistic patriarchal balls. Same for slave relationships. And there are a lot more disconnects. Your bible's psychological constructs and morals are stone age archaic, brutal, inhumane, and are rejected in modern theory.

    Understood. But if you agree with Tangle that everything possibly known and experienced originate with the written characters in the book you can throw the characters away with the book. I do not believe nor experience the characters in that way.
    From Message 341
    Phat, addressing jar writes:

    But surely God has to do something.

    AZ writes:

    He could die. He could not exist. Either of those would be good.

    Are you talking about Jesus Christ? If you despise Jesus(either as the character in the book or hypothetical actual living character of GOD) in this fashion I can arrange an exorcism to oust that proud little nature spirit of the antichrist.

    AZ writes:

    I can think of others if you need.

    Yes please do. Is there any way you can think of how you would honestly react were Jesus alive?
    You need an argument against a Higher Power in general.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 60 by AZPaul3, posted 09-19-2021 4:09 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 62 by ringo, posted 09-20-2021 12:17 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 63 by anglagard, posted 09-20-2021 1:56 PM Phat has responded
     Message 64 by AZPaul3, posted 09-20-2021 3:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 65 of 171 (888550)
    09-20-2021 3:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 63 by anglagard
    09-20-2021 1:56 PM


    62 Years Old As of yesterday.
    anglagard writes:

    I hope the vacation did you some good.

    I'm still going to slow down my participation here. It's unhealthy to be addicted to social media rebuttals....just another form of addiction! Ranting insulates me from actually experiencing the feelings and subsequent actions that they can lead to. I'm reading Matthew...slowly and thoroughly...as I ease back on my quantity of posts.

    I hope to improve my quality somewhat. Thanks for the birthday wishes.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 63 by anglagard, posted 09-20-2021 1:56 PM anglagard has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 69 by Percy, posted 09-22-2021 1:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 67 of 171 (888578)
    09-21-2021 4:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 66 by jar
    09-20-2021 4:17 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    Many believers disagree with your logical yet bland and uninspired assessment. Just because jar in Texas has never discovered how it is possible to commune with GOD or whether it has any possible value does not mean that your Socratic logic has any weight on reality for everyone

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by jar, posted 09-20-2021 4:17 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 68 by jar, posted 09-21-2021 4:43 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 70 by ringo, posted 09-23-2021 12:14 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 72 of 171 (888618)
    09-24-2021 8:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 71 by jar
    09-23-2021 1:04 PM


    Re: 62 Years Old Today--September 19th
    First of all I dont have these questions. Second it is not my job to answer them for you.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by jar, posted 09-23-2021 1:04 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 73 by jar, posted 09-24-2021 10:35 AM Phat has responded
     Message 74 by Percy, posted 09-24-2021 10:51 AM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 75 of 171 (888648)
    09-25-2021 3:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 74 by Percy
    09-24-2021 10:51 AM


    Engaging & Enabling
    Hello Percy. Started the day eating well. Ha a salad. I am not prepared to die anytime soon.

    But I am prepared to engage in reasonable debate. Jar is a one-trick pony. He has one and only one view of what the Bible says and what it means, and he has discredited himself as a believer by saying that none of the characters are real. (But are products of human literature)

    Is it possible that working in a grocery store is an enabling situation for you?
    Not sure I follow. What is it I am enabling?

    Edited by Phat, : sub title


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 74 by Percy, posted 09-24-2021 10:51 AM Percy has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 81 by Percy, posted 09-26-2021 8:57 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 76 of 171 (888649)
    09-25-2021 3:31 PM
    Reply to: Message 73 by jar
    09-24-2021 10:35 AM


    jar manipulates and attempts to frame arguments
    nd so yet again all Phat can provide is the fact that he cannot or will not address what others post.
    I have tried before. You respond by either insulting my intelligence or attempting to reframe the argument and dismissing what I say.

    You may have learned how to win arguments through attrition but you know less than you think you do about reality.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 73 by jar, posted 09-24-2021 10:35 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 77 by jar, posted 09-25-2021 3:44 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 78 of 171 (888652)
    09-26-2021 2:51 AM
    Reply to: Message 77 by jar
    09-25-2021 3:44 PM


    Re: jar manipulates and attempts to frame arguments
    Im not talking about God. There is no way to "prove" Him. I'm talking about my predictions for global finance and how you ignorantly mock them.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 77 by jar, posted 09-25-2021 3:44 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 79 by PaulK, posted 09-26-2021 4:25 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 80 by jar, posted 09-26-2021 7:51 AM Phat has responded
     Message 82 by nwr, posted 09-26-2021 9:41 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 83 of 171 (888659)
    09-26-2021 10:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 80 by jar
    09-26-2021 7:51 AM


    Re: jar manipulates and attempts to frame arguments
    jar writes:

    No one here doubts we are facing financial problems bu the biggest issue is folk like you who do not learn the basics or history or economics or reality and instead rely on snake oil salesmen and con artists.

    Do you understand that if the debt ceiling is NOT raised the result will be that the dollar IMMEDIATELY becomes worthless for any international transactions.

    Your grocery store will but be able to restock any product that is not fully sourced in the USofA; fully sourced from the initial raw materials to the labor to the processing to the packaging to the delivery.

    Can you list the products your store sells that would meet those conditions?

    Phat the problem is not the amount of debt the US holds; it is that the US population has never been taught how to think.

    And yet, the debt will get paid.

    It's up you folk like you to decide whether you prefer to pay the debt by changing behavior or by starvation and violence.

    You bring up a point I want to emphasize. The problem of the debt is not due to any one political party or ideology. An argument can easily be made that the debt was raised over the years under the administrations of both Democrats and republicans. Debt is debt...whether it be from a tax cut or a stimulus. The Fed is creating money out of thin air. Now....I am no obstructionist. I agree that the debt ceiling needs to be raised in order to keep the dollar solvent among other things. The Republicans would be idiots to try and monkey with this issue under the guise of political brinksmanship. If they do, we may actually crash. Crashes are caused by loss of confidence. What I will say, however, is that one method that debt to GDP has been reduced is by allowing moderate inflation and keeping interest rates at zero or even negative. It appears that this will be the chosen strategy. The problem is that the US now is not the US coming out of World War II.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 80 by jar, posted 09-26-2021 7:51 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 84 by jar, posted 09-26-2021 10:41 AM Phat has responded
     Message 85 by Percy, posted 09-26-2021 10:59 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 86 by PaulK, posted 09-26-2021 11:08 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 87 by anglagard, posted 09-26-2021 5:47 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 88 of 171 (888674)
    09-27-2021 11:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 84 by jar
    09-26-2021 10:41 AM


    Production Backs The Dollar
    Though I knew that the answer was "production" as well as the faith and trust of the people, I googled a few sources to find the one that seemed most reliable to my intuition.
    This guy caught my eye:
    What ‘Backs’ The Dollar? Easy: Production

    Here is what he said:

    quote:
    Some people falsely assume that money is ‘backed’ only by something that already exists – something that exists before new money is issued. They imagine a fixed quantum of gold, for example, or some other commodity or precious metal. When these people hear pundits or politicians attacking the Fed for ‘printing money,’ they accordingly assume it’s a bad thing – something that automatically causes … inflation.

    But this is a mistake – a mistake with huge consequences. And it’s not hard to see why.

    Let’s start with inflation. The thing to remember about inflation is that it’s a relation. Say that again: Inflation is a relation. To simplify slightly, it’s a relation between the quantity of money on the one hand and the number of available goods and services on the other hand. Hence the colloquial definition of inflation as ‘too much money chasing too few goods.’


    I know that some of you will criticize me for not putting my answer in my own words but at this point, I don't understand some of the concepts enough to know the words.

    I knew that Gold no longer backed the dollar. What worries me about inflation and the actions of the Fed are that real wage values will decrease even as workers increase (assuming the opportunity for production) and your prediction that we will all make fine gardeners and servants of a rising global middle class looks likely. That is not something that I will easily accept and seems to be something to oppose and fight. Why the hell should my position in life be downgraded simply because the US is stupid?

    Edited by Admin, : Fix quoted section.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 84 by jar, posted 09-26-2021 10:41 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 89 by dwise1, posted 09-27-2021 1:06 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 90 by jar, posted 09-27-2021 2:05 PM Phat has responded
     Message 91 by Percy, posted 09-27-2021 2:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 92 of 171 (888687)
    09-28-2021 1:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 90 by jar
    09-27-2021 2:05 PM


    Re: Production Backs The Dollar
    What might be a method that faith and confidence might be measured?

    Honesty, for one thing. Being a nation that keeps its word and its promises.

    You and I have discussed how poorly we have done in this area for many years.

    In fact, judging from some news reports, we did it again to the Afghani people who helped us.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 90 by jar, posted 09-27-2021 2:05 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 93 by jar, posted 09-28-2021 6:53 AM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 94 of 171 (888692)
    09-28-2021 7:46 AM
    Reply to: Message 93 by jar
    09-28-2021 6:53 AM


    Re: Production Backs The Dollar
    jar, spelling corrected writes:

    Two people go into a bank to get a loan.

    One gets the loan and one does not.

    Of which of the two does the bank have the greater confidence?

    Using my intuition, I would say that the bank has greater confidence towards the one whom they deny.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 93 by jar, posted 09-28-2021 6:53 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 95 by jar, posted 09-28-2021 7:50 AM Phat has responded
     Message 98 by Percy, posted 09-28-2021 2:22 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 96 of 171 (888694)
    09-28-2021 12:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 95 by jar
    09-28-2021 7:50 AM


    Re: Production Backs The Dollar
    was I wrong then? They know why *not* to approve a loan. They have no idea if the loan will be repaid but can only judge based on ability to repay.

    Let's extrapolate that to the United States. Do we really want China to buy up all of our farmland? We DO still have a military that could theoretically nationalize all foreign holdings if our creditors (the bank) get a bit too carried away.

    China is not our idea of a global leader. They cannot simply mimic what the US has done in the past hundred years. We could get away with owning foreign investments since we were a democracy.(or to some a republic) They are a totalitarian communist regime with a horrible history of controlling people....something we have never done.

    You say the bill will get paid, but it matters a lot to whom the money is owed. I for one am in favor of default or bankruptcy if the creditors are predatory or unworthy.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 95 by jar, posted 09-28-2021 7:50 AM jar has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 97 of 171 (888695)
    09-28-2021 12:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 95 by jar
    09-28-2021 7:50 AM


    Re: Production Backs The Dollar
    OK lets try this again.

    jar, spelling corrected writes:

    Two people go into a bank to get a loan.

    One gets the loan and one does not.

    Of which of the two does the bank have the greater confidence?

    The one who gets the loan.

    Where is this analogy heading?

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 95 by jar, posted 09-28-2021 7:50 AM jar has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 99 of 171 (888701)
    09-29-2021 7:21 AM
    Reply to: Message 98 by Percy
    09-28-2021 2:22 PM


    Re: Production Backs The Dollar
    Of course, it was sarcastic. Sometimes you guys insult me by imagining yourselves far smarter than I. I may correct you on that 300 billion servicing figure. It is now twice that, based on 9%. The latest figure was 2020 and it was over 500 billion.

    The current debt is just under 29 trillion dollars. This does not include unfunded liabilities such as future promises *cough* Social Security *cough* which are estimated to be over one hundred trillion dollars.

    The deficit is the yearly amount added to the debt, and this figure alone approaches 4 trillion dollars as of late.

    And the problem with the dollar being backed by production is that the US is not an efficient producer anymore. We have a financial system driven upwards as of late only through artificially infused stimulus.

    I know that it is simplistic to compare globalism (all of the people) to nationalism (US people) but the dollar is a US currency as well as a global reserve currency.(currently the main one) If we keep borrowing and do not produce, the rest of the world will tire of our status quickly. Jar always argues that the proverbial bill will get paid, but I wonder if any of you know or care that the human productive backing of goods and services will not help us if the dollar becomes global....nor will it help us if any other currency takes its place. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I hope that I am not coming across as too delusional.

    Believe it or not, I'm no dummy. Ask those who know me well.
    (Though I *do* get insecure around here at times. )


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 98 by Percy, posted 09-28-2021 2:22 PM Percy has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 100 by Tangle, posted 09-29-2021 8:54 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 101 by PaulK, posted 09-29-2021 9:32 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 102 by Percy, posted 09-29-2021 12:45 PM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 108 by ringo, posted 09-30-2021 12:24 PM Phat has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 15697
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 109 of 171 (888754)
    10-03-2021 10:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 108 by ringo
    09-30-2021 12:24 PM


    Re: Production Backs The Dollar
    It is easy to criticize my sources, but I would wager that no one in this forum understands the markets and the global money system any better than I do. If so, step up and give me *your* sources. None of you are finance majors as far as I know. (Percy you are the exception. You have some solid sources.)

    Im about to start a new topic.

    It will be called Testing The Financial Apologists Conmen.

    As for Ringo, he will argue anything that I post, but I doubt he understands finance at all. All he knows is that Jesus told us to give it all away. Which is another argument unto itself.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 108 by ringo, posted 09-30-2021 12:24 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 110 by ringo, posted 10-03-2021 11:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 111 by PaulK, posted 10-03-2021 11:55 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 112 by Percy, posted 10-03-2021 12:47 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 113 by Tangle, posted 10-03-2021 4:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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