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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 136 of 171 (889123)
11-05-2021 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by LamarkNewAge
11-02-2021 11:16 PM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
Despite what everyone may think, I dont use google to manage my health nor to get medical advice. My Doctors are well aware of my numbers as am I. I understand diabetes better than most here at this website.

But thanks for initiating the conversation.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-02-2021 11:16 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-05-2021 2:05 PM Phat has responded
 Message 139 by Aussie, posted 11-06-2021 3:05 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 137 of 171 (889124)
11-05-2021 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Phat
11-05-2021 11:53 AM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
Did you just tee-up a post from Cannard-Meister, aka Percy?
Get ready for a legacy comment for posterity.

Condescentipn coming.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 11-05-2021 11:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 11-05-2021 3:30 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 138 of 171 (889126)
11-05-2021 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by LamarkNewAge
11-05-2021 2:05 PM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
Condescension coming

Its my lot in life.

I'll make a longer post if I ever get time.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-05-2021 2:05 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


(4)
Message 139 of 171 (889132)
11-06-2021 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Phat
11-05-2021 11:53 AM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
I dont use google to manage my health nor to get medical advice. My Doctors are well aware of my numbers as am I. I understand diabetes better than most here at this website.

Hi Phat,

I've been a type 1 diabetic for quite a lot of years now. And I have to say, despite your words here, it doesn't sound like you understand diabetes well at all. I'm one of the stupidly diabetic diabetics...the "Fragile" type that can go from 60 to 360 in half an hour just by walking down the baking goods aisle in the grocery store. Seriously...I'm really bad. When I was diagnosed in my mid 30's I was about to have a heart attack according to my lipids, and my A1C was about 11.

15 years later, my A1C tests average 6.5, give or take a point or two, and my cholesterol, BP, and associated risk of heart disease is estimated to be better than the average 25 year old. This is with run of the mill medicine and very moderate exercise.

You not getting your numbers under control is telling that you either do not understand how much danger you are currently in, or that you just don't care what your medical professionals tell you and you have some death wish.

Either way, I am afraid for you. Please take care of yourself!


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 11-05-2021 11:53 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-06-2021 11:27 PM Aussie has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 140 of 171 (889133)
11-06-2021 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Aussie
11-06-2021 3:05 PM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
You said A1C was 6.5.

You take insulin, right?

The fact that you have a problem with your body's own insulin is what makes you diabetic, right?

You seem to have an A1C that might put you in the "pre diabetic" stage, based on raw numbers. But it is lower than a diabetic level because A1C measures you average daily levels (going back a certain amount of days)

Earlier, I said the A1C was misleading, with respect to its sugar level number indicating diabetes,because you could have a person eat constantly (eat all day, my words) and thus have a constant "sugar spike" effect on your levels.

AzPaul said the "3 month" average would cancel out the spikes, but what if somebody eats every hour, 16 hours a day, for 3 months? (I dont necessarily accept his exact "3 month" trail, mind you)

A1C scores do not always indicate insulin production issues in the body. That was my situation (5 years ago anyway).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Aussie, posted 11-06-2021 3:05 PM Aussie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by vimesey, posted 11-07-2021 5:27 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 143 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2021 10:04 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1264
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 8.2


(5)
Message 141 of 171 (889134)
11-07-2021 5:27 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by LamarkNewAge
11-06-2021 11:27 PM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
but what if somebody eats every hour, 16 hours a day, for 3 months?

I'd suspect morbid obesity and a strained sphincter would be likely outcomes.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-06-2021 11:27 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 11-07-2021 7:17 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 142 of 171 (889135)
11-07-2021 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by vimesey
11-07-2021 5:27 AM


Re: My comment on the A1C test was relative to AzPaul's comment.
Too often relieved here.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by vimesey, posted 11-07-2021 5:27 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 143 of 171 (889137)
11-07-2021 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by LamarkNewAge
11-06-2021 11:27 PM


Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
It has been more than a few day since this sub-thread started. Plenty of time to research the subject to get a basic understanding of the issues. You say you had an issues 5 years ago. You learned nothing from that experience and have now become the purveyor of bad, dangerous, misinformation.

Sugar spikes happen every time you ingest anything (usually). A spike means nothing. Even eating a gigantic thanksgiving meal that lasts for 3 days (given the usual amount of leftovers) will not introduce a diabetic problem in most people.

The diabetes concern is when the spikes are so high and often that they move the A1C to a higher basal level. Over 6 is concerning. Over 10 is dangerous and just stopping eating is not the answer.

The long term basal level (A1C) has to come down. If diet and exercise are not effective then there are two scenarios to consider. Either the person is not maintaining their program or there are metabolic issues that require medical intervention. Starvation is a stupid and dangerous treatment.

Again, idiot, just stopping consumption is not a treatment and can itself cause a whole host other issues dangerous to those with sever diabetes issues already.

A1C details.

Under certain circumstances a glucose molecule will adhere to the cell wall of an erythrocyte (red blood cell). Erythrocytes are made in the bone marrow and, on average, last 3 months before they are dissolved (eaten) by macrophages (white blood cells). When you draw blood for an A1C test you get the full mix of new cells with no sugars attached to old cells pot marked with glucose. The total glucose volume as a percent of total volume is the A1C reading. This gives a base level of blood sugar over a long period, which is where the danger lies.

Doctors used to require NPO after midnight. Nothing to eat or drink after midnight before the test. They don’t do this anymore because the spike of sugars that results is not even noticeable on the test.

Sugar spikes mean nothing. You do not know what the hell you are talking about. Worse, you haven’t bothered to educated yourself on the issue.

You are dangerous.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-06-2021 11:27 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 12:24 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded
 Message 145 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 12:37 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 144 of 171 (889138)
11-07-2021 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by AZPaul3
11-07-2021 10:04 AM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
So it does not matter what anybody eats?

Or how often they eat?

Just take insulin?

What about pre-diabetics? Doctors will not prescribe insulin, nor will the prescribe needles & a testing kit. These are not over the counter items, right?

So what is your "solution", exactly?

You keep conflating my discussion with you (and your canards have swallowed nearly every) with my questions/comments to Phat. You take individual sentences and (mis)use them for your straw man responses.

Sorry if I missed any points if substance. Do you have any?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2021 10:04 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2021 12:48 PM LamarkNewAge has responded
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 11-07-2021 2:49 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 145 of 171 (889139)
11-07-2021 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by AZPaul3
11-07-2021 10:04 AM


AzPaul said sugar spikes mean nothing. That is a substantial claim. Commentary on!
I must comment.

The only time my sugar would go above 70 was when I ate. And it would be back down to 70 almost right away. 2 hours or slightly longer, and the level would typically hit exactly 70, and stay that way.

As late as the age of 40, my body would bring my sugar down to 70. So no natural insulin problems for me.

But my A1C was higher than yours, and you said your 5.6 level indicated developing diabetes.

That was an after-meal "sugar spike", right?

I always had spikes. I never stopped eating before comprehensive blood work tests. Might explain why my cholesterol levels were low, but triglycerides were high. My last test, in 2017, saw cholesterol at 121, but triglycerides at about 350 to 400. I was eating right up to the test. My sugar was 108, A1C was down to 5.3 I think. It was 5.7.

(My cholesterol was never above 162)

I think I know something about spikes.

I think you have said a whole lot about nothing.

I never got to ask you, but do you consider consider diabetes to be purely or mostly hereditary. I struggle with finding actual substance from you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2021 10:04 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2021 1:15 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17033
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(5)
Message 146 of 171 (889140)
11-07-2021 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 12:24 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
quote:
So it does not matter what anybody eats?

He didn’t say anything like that.

quote:
Or how often they eat?

Aside from the fact that A1C levels aren’t affected by recent meals he’d didn’t say anything like that either.

quote:
Just take insulin?

He absolutely didn’t say anything like that.

quote:
What about pre-diabetics? Doctors will not prescribe insulin, nor will the prescribe needles & a testing kit. These are not over the counter items, right?

You don’t know anything about treating diabetes, do you? Insulin is for the worst cases. Pre-diabetics would typically get advice on diet and exercise. If they develop diabetes that still aren’t likely to be prescribed insulin unless it’s bad.

quote:
You keep conflating my discussion with you (and your canards have swallowed nearly every) with my questions/comments to Phat. You take individual sentences and (mis)use them for your straw man responses.

Massive projection there. Your old habit of long rambling posts with no discernible point wasn’t effective debate - but this nastiness is even worse.

quote:
Sorry if I missed any points if substance. Do you have any?

Actual debate requires reading and responding to your opponent’s points. Not inventing straw men and making false accusations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 12:24 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 2:17 PM PaulK has responded
 Message 164 by Percy, posted 11-08-2021 9:19 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 147 of 171 (889142)
11-07-2021 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 12:37 PM


Re: AzPaul said sugar spikes mean nothing. That is a substantial claim. Commentary on!
I never got to ask you, but do you consider consider diabetes to be purely or mostly hereditary. I struggle with finding actual substance from you.

That’s because you don’t pay attention.

Message 132

quote:
In too many people, LNA, sugar metabolism faults, for a whole range of reasons spanning nature-to-nurture.

PaulK's response to you is more evidence of how much of a problem you have with comprehension.

This whole area appears to be beyond you. Please, stop. You are just poison.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 12:37 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 148 of 171 (889144)
11-07-2021 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by PaulK
11-07-2021 12:48 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
I never said anything about "recent meals"

We were talking about the A1C.

(Recent meals were used in a different context, so read my posts again)

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2021 12:48 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2021 2:20 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17033
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 149 of 171 (889145)
11-07-2021 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 2:17 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
quote:
I never said anything about "recent meals"

I didn’t claim that you did. But you did.

The only time my sugar would go above 70 was when I ate. And it would be back down to 70 almost right away. 2 hours or slightly longer, and the level would typically hit exactly 70, and stay that way.

quote:
We were talking about the A1C.

And you were confusing it with blood sugar measurements.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 2:17 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 2:27 PM PaulK has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 150 of 171 (889148)
11-07-2021 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by PaulK
11-07-2021 2:20 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
I was showing that my body had no trouble breaking down sugar.

My A1C level of 5.7 indicated otherwise, according to AzPauls commentary on pre diabetes.

It is obvious, to those with integrity, that I was not saying my morning meal influenced my hour-later A1C.

This is so obvious that I wonder if I should spend any more time responding to straw man crap.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2021 2:20 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2021 2:36 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 152 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2021 2:48 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
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