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Author Topic:   Phat Unplugged
AZPaul3
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Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 151 of 171 (889151)
11-07-2021 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 2:27 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
This is so obvious that I wonder if I should spend any more time responding to straw man crap.

No.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 2:27 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17033
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 152 of 171 (889153)
11-07-2021 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 2:27 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
quote:
I was showing that my body had no trouble breaking down sugar.

Which has nothing to do with what I said.

quote:
My A1C level of 5.7 indicated otherwise, according to AzPauls commentary on pre diabetes.

Which raises the question of why your A1C is so high. Nevertheless it would be odd for a single, simple diagnostic indicator to be an infallible guide.

quote:
It is obvious, to those with integrity, that I was not saying my morning meal influenced my hour-later A1C.

It seems that you are the one lacking integrity, since you claimed that constant sugar spikes could give a misleading A1C reading.

Earlier, I said the A1C was misleading, with respect to its sugar level number indicating diabetes,because you could have a person eat constantly (eat all day, my words) and thus have a constant "sugar spike" effect on your levels.

Message 140

quote:
This is so obvious that I wonder if I should spend any more time responding to straw man crap.

Presumably you mean “responding with straw man crap” Message 144 being an obvious case in point. And no, you should give it up along with your unpleasant habit of making hypocritical and false accusations. But you won’t.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 2:27 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15709
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 153 of 171 (889154)
11-07-2021 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 12:24 PM


Type 1 and Type 2
LNA writes:

So it does not matter what anybody eats?

Or how often they eat?

Just take insulin?

What about pre-diabetics? Doctors will not prescribe insulin, nor will they prescribe needles & a testing kit. These are not over-the-counter items, right?

So what is your "solution", exactly?

Allow me to share my foibles, arrogant assumptions, and pro and con experiences with my diabetes over the years. Lets start with the year 2000. I had a rather inept Doctor at that time who would prescribe for me anything that I asked for. I had just recently been diagnosed with Type II diabetes and after becoming worried over something I read in a book by Richard Bernstein, (A Type I himself) I became worried that my Pancreatic Beta cells would burn out and requested that the Doctor put me on insulin. A fatal mistake at the time. Had I done then what I know now, I would have beaten the Type II without Insulin...but I was stubborn in that I wanted to eat whatever I wanted. I simply increased the insulin in order to cover the sin, but in reality, I was making myself more insulin resistant. Excess insulin leads to further insulin resistance...I now know but likely I've already jacked my health up for one primary reason---I don't listen. I think I know everything and yet though I may be well informed I never even listened to my own advice to myself! Years later, after I went to good endocrinologists (who in my opinion gave me too much insulin--they never measured what I actually needed) So the next step I took was going to what I should have done in the beginning--going to lo-carb advocates. Dr.Jason Fung, a nephrologist (Kidney specialist) is the prime spokesman for this discipline. It works only if you follow the advice...and again I did not follow the advice. This brings us to now. I need to go back on insulin in order to lower my sugars. And I need to listen to what I am told to eat.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 12:24 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Percy, posted 11-08-2021 9:46 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 154 of 171 (889155)
11-07-2021 3:02 PM


testing kits including lancets (needles)
Just to clear up yet another pontification from Feste.

Of course pre-diabetics are prescribed testing kits and lancets; I generally get two packs of 100 test strips and 212 lancets each time.

Currently I test once in the morning before eating anything or even taking morning meds. The meter records daily, and 7-14-30-90 days moving averages. Blood is taken and lab tests run at the Dr's office three times annually.

Both absolute highs or lows as well as all of the moving averages are relevant.

Remember that Feste is "an allowed nincompoop", but unfortunately not a harlequin.

Edited by jar, : appalin spalli


My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 155 of 171 (889159)
11-07-2021 3:55 PM


Fair Warning: I am about to bring science into this discussion (run from study NOW
A1C Between 5.7 and 6.4% as a Marker for Identifying Pre-Diabetes, Insulin Sensitivity and Secretion, and Cardiovascular Risk Factors

The Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study
(IRAS)

....

Objective

A1C is an optional method for diagnosing diabetes and also for detecting individuals at increased risk of the disease. However, how A1C compares with fasting (FPG) and 2-h plasma glucose for detecting at-risk individuals is not well known.

....

Results

IFG and IGT identified 69.1 and 59.5% of all individuals at increased risk of diabetes, respectively. A1C 5.7-6.4 detected 23.6% of all at risk individuals


  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 156 of 171 (889160)
11-07-2021 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
11-07-2021 3:02 PM


Re: testing kits including lancets (needles)
I am a blah-poop.

I never heard of a 2 hour testing method, until now.

It is IGT.

But I thought I invented it years ago.

I discovered it only days ago, in the literature.

I practised it without knowing it was an established method.

A scientific practice I found independent of the literature.

I lived it!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 11-07-2021 3:02 PM jar has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 157 of 171 (889161)
11-07-2021 5:29 PM


Here is the (2016) diabetes % by age group (AzPaul failed to deliver numbers)
18-44 2.7%

45-64 13.7%

65-74 23.4%

75+ 21.3%

Overall 9.5%

(Yes, this is the United States. Not my fault for the nationalistic selection, it is all I could find)

So a 9.5% diabetes rate, while 23.6% of 5.7-6.4 A1C diagnoses EVEN INDICATE an actual "pre-diabetes" health disorder.

AzPaul said his 5.6 A1C indicated a developing pre-diabetes.

I dare AzPaul to find a study showing that persons with A1C test results of 5.6-6.0 A1C will go on to a statically significant level of future diabetes diagnoses relative to the 10% individuals diagnosed with diabetes.

Challenge on!


Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by AZPaul3, posted 11-07-2021 5:52 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6083
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 158 of 171 (889162)
11-07-2021 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 5:29 PM


Re: Here is the (2016) diabetes % by age group (AzPaul failed to deliver numbers)
yawn.

Challenge off.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 5:29 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33496
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 159 of 171 (889163)
11-07-2021 5:54 PM


Feste really needs to be Harlequin!
Those of us who are pre-diabetic yet not naïve and vacuous keep track of our A1c moving averages and so change and modify our behavior, our diets and and our lifestyles so that we do not progress into full blown diabetes by sin of commission or omission.

Edited by jar, : oops


My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 160 of 171 (889164)
11-07-2021 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by jar
11-07-2021 5:54 PM


Re: Feste really needs to be Harlequin!
Been hitting the thesaurus?

Impressive.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 11-07-2021 5:54 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 161 of 171 (889171)
11-07-2021 11:30 PM


diabetics eat twice a day
Just put that into Google and it looks like a good deal for sugar levels.

(Studies show)

Eat first meal between 6 am and 10 am.

Second meal between 12 pm and 4 pm.

(Variatipns include a very small dinner)

I have heard, from diabetics, that food should be avoided after 4 PM. But schedules might make the timeline difficult. Sleep schedule is vital. Late meals have been described as fatal, for diabetics . But the same people have admitted that they need to eat to take insulin.

I am learning. Hope I can avoid diabetes.

The chances of getting diabetes is high, with age.


  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2018
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 162 of 171 (889172)
11-07-2021 11:45 PM


Studies from Prague and tell Aviv confirm that fewer meals for diabetics are superior
Prof Daniela Jakubowicz of Israel lead a study.

It is part of an avalanche of evidence that diabetics need to restrict the amount of meals a day.

Her study result allows for 3 meals a day.

Not 6, as doctors traditionally reccomend.


  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


(1)
Message 163 of 171 (889173)
11-08-2021 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by LamarkNewAge
11-07-2021 5:57 PM


Re: Feste really needs to be Harlequin!
Been hitting the thesaurus?
Impressive.

Which of his words were too big for you?


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by LamarkNewAge, posted 11-07-2021 5:57 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 164 of 171 (889174)
11-08-2021 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by PaulK
11-07-2021 12:48 PM


Re: Research, smesearch. Who needs it!
PaulK writes:

quote:
So it does not matter what anybody eats?

He didn’t say anything like that.

etc...
etc...
etc...

He doesn't even understand what *he* writes, let alone what other people write.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2021 12:48 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20410
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(5)
Message 165 of 171 (889175)
11-08-2021 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
11-07-2021 2:49 PM


Re: Type 1 and Type 2
Phat writes:

Years later, after I went to good endocrinologists (who in my opinion gave me too much insulin--they never measured what I actually needed).

Even back in the 1970's when I had a close friend who was an actual practicing diabetic the importance of monitoring blood sugar so you could work out how much insulin you needed at any given time was well established. If this endocrinologist wasn't stressing this then he was definitely not a "good endocrinologist". My guess is that you're calling him a "good endocrinologist" because you liked him and not because of any display of medical expertise.

So the next step I took was going to what I should have done in the beginning--going to lo-carb advocates.

By the time you went to the low-carb specialists it was far too late for that. By that point a a low carb diet could only act as a supplement to medications like insulin for your dangerous blood sugar levels. If he were reputable he would have seen your A1C and sent you right back to the endocrinologist. That he tried to help you means he was either a quack or an opportunist.

There is only one alternative for you now: insulin. You need insulin in one or more of the many provided forms along with self monitoring so you know when and how much to take and can establish a routine of meals and medication. Then there are a variety of medications available that can be helpful. There's acarbose or miglitol to mitigate the sugar spikes of meals, biguanides like metformin can increase your sensitivity to insulin, and a host of others.

Diabetes causes 73,000 amputations annually, and about 79,000 deaths, the 7th leading cause. How much of all that is due to adopting the wrong course of treatment or not following the treatment, who knows?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 11-07-2021 2:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 11-10-2021 1:26 PM Percy has responded

  
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