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Author | Topic: Phat Unplugged | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
Phat writes in Message 491: So I read Exploiting Fear Is What Trump, Vance And Their Fascist Mob Do which was an editorial. That actually looks like a reasonably fair report, although I am not familiar with that web site.
I will admit that exploiting fear (and greed) instead of hope is one of the issues that will define this upcoming election. Conservative evangelical Christianity is based on exploiting fear. Liberal versions of Christianity are closer to what the gospels teach, although some of them may go too far in the other direction.
Theodoric writes in Message 493: Scientists are not fearmongering. Sensationalistic media companies are. Theodoric is absolutely right about that.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Percy Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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Phat writes in Message 491: So I read Exploiting Fear Is What Trump, Vance And Their Fascist Mob Do which was an editorial. I will admit that exploiting fear (and greed) instead of hope is one of the issues that will define this upcoming election. Though not as liberal as the newsletter seems to be, I am not going to support fear if it causes division and hopelessness among the people. How about merely supporting truth? Countries south of our border are not sending their criminals and drug addicts across our border. Will you support someone who lies about that? The southern border is not open. Will you support someone who lies about that? The 2020 election was not stolen? Will you support someone who lies about that? Tariffs are not paid for by the exporting country. Will you support someone who lies about that? How about just supporting whoever tells the truth? --Percy
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3971 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
I'm curious about what Elizabeth Warren says about gold and silver. I searched and found nothing. I'm not going to do it, but you might explore what Warren Buffet (just realized the "name in common") thinks about investing in gold. My guess is that any WB gold investment is in gold mining companies stock. Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Blotched quote box formatting and didn't bother previewing.
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Taq Member Posts: 10304 Joined: Member Rating: 7.2 |
Phat writes: You and the EvC bunch along with my sister have convinced me to support hope and unity rather than fear and division, though I am not naive about possible threats to the U.S. way of life. Money does not simply grow on trees. Money does grow in the treasury. Almost sounds like the same thing. It's good to hear that you have come over the Light side of the Force. There are still things that are worth worrying about, but fear mongering is not the way to go. The best way to quash a problem is to solve it, not scare people with it.
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Percy writes: First, you need to explain how a gold-based system is going to work when the size of the world economy is, and has been for some time, larger than the supply of gold, and the gap is growing. You always ignore this question. Gold HAS to work. It HAS to serve as a store of value or the value will be lost in the masses and redistributed. The gold itself is not the currency. The gold serves only to back the currency (stock, T-bill, whatever) so that he who has the gold can make the rules. Otherwise we have unfettered globalism. [/rant]
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2341 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.9
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Gold HAS to work. It HAS to serve as a store of value or the value will be lost in the masses and redistributed.
Oh I forgot your wishful thinking overrules reality.
The gold serves only to back the currency
if the gold backs the currency then the amount of currency is limited by the amount of gold. You can't have $6 worth of currency backed by $3 worth of gold. This is what Percy is saying.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Dr.Jones writes: Dont you see how you are wording that? $3.00 *worth*??!! Worth is value. The dollars worth is what is being called into question. Explain to me why a dollar in 1945 is equivalent to as much as $100.00 today? The *worth* of a dollar isnt even stable relative to itself. if the gold backs the currency then the amount of currency is limited by the amount of gold. You can't have $6 worth of currency backed by $3 worth of gold. This is what Percy is saying.
Granted the critics will say that the dollar is stable and superior relative to other currencies...but that isnt the issue. The issue is precisely what accounts for value, worth and stability? You guys are arguing that the value of anything is ultimately determined by fiat. I call bullshit. Hard assets determine the value of fiat. Fiat never actually determines the value of hard assets.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 9.1 |
Phat writes in Message 502: Hard assets determine the value of fiat. Fiat never actually determines the value of hard assets. Yep, it's obvious. The value is stamped right there on every atom of gold. Please tell us the value of an ounce of gold.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3 If you are going to argue that evolution is false because it resembles your own beliefs then perhaps you should rethink your argument. - - Taq
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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So Phat, explain this: Chat GPT
The total value of all the gold on Earth depends on the current gold price and the estimated amount of gold that has been mined. Amount of Gold: According to the World Gold Council, approximately 201,300 metric tons of gold have been mined throughout human history as of 2021. This number is continually updated as more gold is mined annually. Current Price of Gold: As of October 2024, the price of gold is around $1,800 per troy ounce (though this can fluctuate depending on the market). One metric ton equals 32,150.7 troy ounces. Calculation:Total gold in troy ounces = 201,300 metric tons × 32,150.7 troy ounces per metric ton = 6.47 billion troy ounces. Value = 6.47 billion troy ounces × $1,800 per troy ounce = approximately $11.65 trillion. And: The total amount of currency in circulation worldwide can be broken down into physical currency (cash: banknotes and coins) and broader money (which includes deposits and other liquid assets). Here's an overview: 1. Physical CurrencyAs of 2024, estimates suggest that around $8 to $9 trillion of physical currency (cash in the form of banknotes and coins) is in circulation globally. This includes all major currencies like the U.S. dollar (USD), euro (EUR), Japanese yen (JPY), and others. 2. Broader Money (M2)Broader money includes physical currency along with checking accounts, savings accounts, and other liquid assets that are easily convertible to cash. When we consider broader money, often classified as M2 (money supply), the total amount is significantly larger. The global money supply (M2) is estimated to be around $150 to $170 trillion. This includes not just physical currency but also money held in banks, savings, and short-term deposits. The figures vary depending on the source and measurement methodology, but these estimates provide a general sense of the total amount of currency in circulation worldwide. Keep in mind that these numbers fluctuate with economic conditions, central bank policies, and inflation. So Phat, the actual money in circulation could buy all the gold in the world about 15 time over. What do you think would happen to the global economy if money supply shrunk by a factor of 15 to match the value of all the available gold in the world? (Using the economic concept of all other things being equal)Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3971 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 6.9
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I'm curious about what Elizabeth Warren says about gold and silver. I searched and found nothing. I'm not going to do it, but you might explore what Warren Buffet (just realized the "name in common") thinks about investing in gold. My guess is that any WB gold investment is in gold mining companies stock. Moose OK, I did it a bit. Does Warren Buffett Invest In Gold? - Dated April 19, 2024
quote: and
quote: and
quote: My "bolding". Warren Buffett’s Berkshire buys Barrick Gold shares – Resource World Magazine - Dated 4 years ago
quote: Seems to agree with my previous message. Moose"IF YOU DON'T WANT POLITICS GETTING INTO CRIMINAL TRIALS, DON'T LET CRIMINALS GET INTO POLITICS" - Moose Professor, geology, Whatsamatta UEvolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature) "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes" - Ronald Reagan (1984) "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
I dunno where chatGPT gets its data but you are way off.
As of this morning, Gold is at 2,675.30. That's $1000.00 more than you say. And the forecast is for that to continue going up. This from Yahoo Finance.
Middle East Crisis: Is the US Dollar Ultimate Beneficiary or Gold? The article suggests that Gold is the real winner. quote:You already know that Gold is a safe haven asset, and the market volatility should continue upward with a few profit-taking corrections along the way. One question that I ask is why Central Banks have been so bullish on Gold even as the US Debt spirals upward even faster than gold's rise. Of course you will see less sensationalistic data than I present, largely to calm the public rather than spook them. Note:
Key Resistance Levels
The Fib is a Fibonacci technical analysis term. The method is beyond my understanding, but it is the support argument used by this Yahoo columnist. Saqib Iqbal Ahmed is a technical analyst...one of many worldwide. Resistance 1: $2,683, which is an all-time high Resistance 2: $2,700, a psychological mark Resistance 3: $2,807, 61.8 Fib extension
Key Support Levels Support 1: $2,600 which is a psychological support Support 2: $2,540, an order block Support 3: $2,425, 23.6 Fib retracement level I could say that your argument presents another point of view. Nobody knows how global markets will ultimately behave, but people like you want investors who support the dollar. (Never mind how strong it appears! ) Taq has presented a case for the dollar's continued hegemony while other technical analysts have other views. One of my favorite technical analysts is a man named Chris Vermeulen. FYI I am not wealthy. I understand that any of these technical analysts are earning a living like the rest of us. I am a contrarian to the US Dollar "Club", and I believe that the US is heading towards a major correction financially and in general.
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Phat Member Posts: 18655 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.4 |
Dr.Jones writes: Critics would say I am a Doom and Gloomer, but I actually would like my lifestyle (and yours) to continue for twenty more years. I believe that it won't. Oh I forgot your wishful thinking overrules reality. A few years ago I read a book by Hedge Fund billionaire Ray Dalio which we discussed in the Book Nook. Message 1 The topic sputtered after Theo did one of his infamous reserach rebuttals into Dalio. Message 300 I have since read many biits of news which seem to validate Dalios book rather than disprove it.Granted Dalio worships money. Percy writes: My basic argument is that we wont grow our way out of debt nor will we reduce it. Once the world loses trust in the US (and its dollar) the dominoes will fall quite rapidly. We may have ten years at best.
Countries never really reduce their national debt in any significant way if you're measuring it terms of a currency, say the dollar. The practical approach to reducing the national debt is to measure it as a percentage of GDP. In that way a country can grow its way out of debt.Tany writes: I can only tell you one thing with any confidance. The gold will never become worthless. The dollar might.
Please tell us the value of an ounce of gold.
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Percy Member Posts: 22954 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 7.1 |
Phat writes in Message 506: I dunno where chatGPT gets its data but you are way off.As of this morning, Gold is at 2,675.30. That's $1000.00 more than you say. And the forecast is for that to continue going up. ChatGPT has no connection to the Internet and so does not know current prices. That means Tangle's estimates of gold's total value and of the value of all world currencies is off. If you plug in the current values, which is 244,00 metric tons of gold worldwide at $2,675.40/ounce you get, and
You've been asked this question over and over and never answer: how is a mere $23 trillion in gold going to back values ten to twenty times greater? About the rest of your message, you keep giving us names instead of evidence and arguments. You're still looking for that guy who understands what's happening and knows where things are going. Such people don't exist, but plenty of people will tell you that they're your guy. You're just a con job waiting to happen. --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Phat writes: As of this morning, Gold is at 2,675.30. That's $1000.00 more than you say. And the forecast is for that to continue going up. You missed the entire point of the post and failed to answer the question. Plug in any values you think are most up to date, then answer how the total value of all the gold in the world can hold up the total value of all the money in circulation in the world when it's several orders of magnitude less. [I see Percy has updated the sums for you.]Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6077 Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
The Fib is a Fibonacci technical analysis term. The method is beyond my understanding, but it is the support argument used by this Yahoo columnist. Since you provide us with NFI ("no fucking idea") what that's supposed to be, I'll say a few things about the Fibonacci sequence which I can only assume is what whatever that thing is supposed to be based on. Italian mathematician Fibonacci described it in 1202, but it was also described in India in 200 BCE. Basically, you start with the numbers 0 and 1 and then generate each new number by adding the previous two; therefore:
quote: Fibonacci sequences show up often and in unexpected places, including in biological systems:
quote: We were also taught that unconstrained population growth pretty much follows a Fibonacci sequence -- emphasis on unconstrained, for example when you release a pair of rabbits in Australia where they have no natural predators. That is the kind of population growth used by creationists in their classic PRATT: Human Population Growth. You know, where they claim a constant rate of population growth such that if humans had really been around for a few millions of years then the inner solar system would be packed solid with people -- they quite seriously have made that claim, though some push it out to the orbit of Pluto. I would love to see creationists demonstrate that by filling a square meter with creationists starting three deep and observe them live and reproduce and create an ever higher pile of humans. Of course, we all know full well (even though it goes right over the creationists' heads which is why only they would be stupid enough to volunteer for the experiment) that everybody beneath the top layer would die from asphyxiation not being able to breathe under the weight of bodies above them. They would die long before they could reproduce and yet this stupid claim itself refuses to die. A more accurate population growth model would be what my source (Michael Olnick, An Introduction to Mathematical Models in the Social and Life Sciences, 1978, Addison-Wesley Publishing Co.) called the Logistics Model; as I presented it in my 1990 page on the population claim, The Bunny Blunder:
quote: Hence, using Fibonacci to describe growth can only be valid when that growth is not constrained. That is not true of the market. Who knows WTF your source was trying to do with it?
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