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Author Topic:   The Book Of Acts
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 47 (681136)
11-22-2012 9:28 AM


All now welcome
In this topic, I want to explore the Book Of Acts and all that the book says and ideas and beliefs which the book may imply.
Originally I meant this topic to be a Great Debate between jar and myself, but it appears that jar, though able to make 22855 posts, has no interest in discussing this topic with me.(Though he loves explaining what the books of the Bible actually say, he doesnt want to participate in what he calls a "biased propaganda" book.
jar writes:
And what I keep trying to point out is that the various books that got voted into the Bible are different individual works, each with its own purpose.
In other words, if it doesn't agree with his particular theology, he wants nothing to do with discussing it.
The Theology of Acts is agreeable with me, however, so im opening this debate up to Christian Believers who can accept the Bible has an important source for our faith.
Edited by Phat, : revised the topic

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 47 (681138)
11-22-2012 9:58 AM


Book Of Acts
Hello, all. To start with, I wanted to explore the story of the stoning of Stephen.
Acts 6:8-15
Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, performed great wonders and signs among the people. Opposition arose, however, from members of the Synagogue of the Freedmen (as it was called)Jews of Cyrene and Alexandria as well as the provinces of Cilicia and Asiawho began to argue with Stephen. But they could not stand up against the wisdom the Spirit gave him as he spoke.
Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, We have heard Stephen speak blasphemous words against Moses and against God.
So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. They produced false witnesses, who testified, This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us.
All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen, and they saw that his face was like the face of an angel.
So who or what is this Spirit that Stephen has? Why do people hate him so much? Does it appear he was right or wrong?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2012 4:39 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 47 (681163)
11-23-2012 12:33 PM


Book Of Acts Explored
Does anyone else have anything of interest to them in the Book Of Acts?

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 47 (681421)
11-25-2012 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ICANT
11-23-2012 4:39 PM


Re: Book Of Acts
This book, along with the Gospel of John and the Letter to the Philippians clearly and convincingly showcases the communion of the Holy Spirit with the people of God and the excitement of living in these times and being (hopefully) led by the Spirit.
Wiki writes:
The purpose of Acts has been the subject of much scholarly research and debate. Since Luke-Acts was originally a single work, it is important to note that the purpose of Acts is normally examined in conjunction with the Book of Luke. In Luke 1:3-4, the author states that he decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed. Theophilus is Greek for lover of God and it is suggested that he may either be an individual who recently converted to the faith or a Roman official of whom the church is seeking acceptance from.[12] Acts, then, is a continuation of the Lucan Gospel, not in the sense that it relates what Jesus continued to do, but how his followers carried out his commission under the guidance of his Spirit.[13] Thus, part of the answer to the purpose of Acts is that Luke is writing to Theophilus, who is also mentioned in Luke 1:3, in order to explain to him the occurrences that take place in the church that fulfill Jesus’ promise to his disciples that you will be baptized with, the Holy Spirit not many days from now (Acts 1:5). Fitzmyer states that by looking at the prefaces of Luke and Acts together it can be seen that Luke-Acts purports to be basically ‘a work of edification’.[13]
This book is for edification and encouragement, and it quite rightly gives me a sense of purpose as well as the power and ability to carry out my calling as a Christian. Some may say that its a feel good book that makes their skin crawl, but I might point out that anyone with an inborn resistance to having God direct their life might feel this way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2012 4:39 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by ICANT, posted 11-26-2012 12:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 2:24 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 11 of 47 (681637)
11-27-2012 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by onifre
11-27-2012 2:24 AM


Re: Sense of purpose
Oni writes:
Don't want to interupt your discussion on Jewish mythology but, curiously how do the stories that call for the death of homosexuals and women who aren't virgins when they marry or the killing of your child who tries to steer you away from your faith make you feel?
Does it give you the same sense of purpose or does it give you a sense of shame that god would call for the death of your fellow humans, including that of your wife and your child?
I don't for a moment believe that "my God" would even suggest such atrocities.
Why is it that people cant separate what the Bible says versus what the Spirit says? Granted, since I accept the book for what it is I will take responsibility for what it(the compilation of books) says....but we are discussing Acts here, and I dont see anything negative in that particular book....does anyone see contraily?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 2:24 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 9:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 47 (681638)
11-27-2012 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by onifre
11-27-2012 2:33 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology
Oni writes:
Not finding the Bible to be anything more than Jewish mythology says nothing about one's belief in a God/s. That's pretty close minded thing to say.
The only problem with your approach is that God cant be agreed upon as to character. All we have is a bunch of human(and in my opinion flawed) ideas as to who or what God is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 2:33 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 10:21 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 47 (681667)
11-27-2012 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by onifre
11-27-2012 10:21 AM


Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
Oni writes:
My point was, according to ICANT many don't read the Bible and thus deny God's existence. But if we, as you say, have only ideas as to who or what God is, then the Bible is only 1 of thousands of ways to "know" God or believe in his/her existence.
I agree.
Romans 18-23 writes:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. says:
In other words, humans have an innate idea of a God beyond human description and character. Some of us believe that Jesus Christ was sent to bring character to this God, allowing us to be able to comprehend and commune through Christ to God. The reasons for not choosing to acknowledge and/or attempt to know God are many.
Many logical minds reject the Bible as they understand it. Many reject Christianity based on past behavior of self proclaimed Christians. I can see the logic of these two reasons, but the one I cant see being valid is rejecting the idea of God simply because of wishing to preserve the right of one to think freely without limits or constraint on behavior that such a Spirit may impose on a human conscience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 10:21 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:36 AM Phat has replied
 Message 17 by hooah212002, posted 11-27-2012 11:40 AM Phat has replied
 Message 25 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 12:11 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 47 (681675)
11-27-2012 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
11-27-2012 11:36 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
jar writes:
But is that ever really a reason except in the mind of Christians that want to assign such nonsense to those who believe differently?
So are you saying that God has no preferred way that She wants us to think or act? I suppose that I can see your point as it ties in with your belief that we are responsible (eternally, perhaps) for how we choose to think and/or behave.
I can also agree with you that he evidence of historical christian behavior in regards to "teaching" the rest of the world was and is, essentially "My way(His Way) or the Highway..."
Acts teaches that believers are by and large in agreement, however.
Acts2:44 writes:
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
Granted you may now propose this as evidence that Acts was written as a revisionist philosophy(even suggesting a seeming cult-like attitude amongst Christians) over the older Jewish teachings. I would only disagree because I trust (and want to trust) the ability of the Holy Spirit to unify rather than divide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 47 (681676)
11-27-2012 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by hooah212002
11-27-2012 11:40 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
Why cant I be hypothetical without forever constructing strawmen?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by hooah212002, posted 11-27-2012 11:40 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2012 12:49 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 39 by hooah212002, posted 11-27-2012 2:35 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 47 (681683)
11-27-2012 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
11-27-2012 11:53 AM


Re: Communism and Socialism
It seems to suggest that they were of one mind and heart.
They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
In contrast, any random sample of populations under communist/socialist rule...never-mind any other human form of government, suggests no such cohesiveness.
It seems as if Peter and John were actively attempting to encourage more "outsiders" to become of this same one mind and heart.
Is there any reason to believe that their motive was anything other than spiritual?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:53 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:02 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 47 (681684)
11-27-2012 12:02 PM


The Leaders disagreed with Peter and John
It seems that the leaders of that time disagreed with this effort at bringing the people all under one mind and heart.
16 What are we going to do with these men? they asked. Everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign, and we cannot deny it. 17 But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in this name.
Would you say the leaders were more sane than Peter and John?

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 47 (681686)
11-27-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
11-27-2012 12:02 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
In my opinion, Peter and John wanted the people to not simply be under one form of government, but of one mind and heart...through this belief and by way of this Holy Spirit. Clearly, the Jewish leaders disagreed with this.
18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John replied, Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! 20 As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.
Again, we may ask the motive of Peter and John.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:16 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 47 (681689)
11-27-2012 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by onifre
11-27-2012 12:11 PM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
Point noted. You are probably right....an unbeliever wouldn't even feel the conviction....maybe.
I guess I assumed from the standpoint of the Bible being correct, as per Romans 18.
Edited by Phat, : added point

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 47 (681691)
11-27-2012 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
11-27-2012 12:16 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
Acts 2:44 does not suggest normal behavior among any large group of people, in my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 47 (681696)
11-27-2012 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
11-27-2012 12:19 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
jar writes:
It says nothing about any difference between them and the other Jewish population. There is no mention in your quote about the Holy Spirit.
Granted. The rest of the book of Acts does suggest the holy Spirit, however. Whats your point?
jar writes:
A great reason to join a community is security, food, shelter, clothing, mutual support.
OK. Again, any normal community...at least in a secular setting, has no unification of mind and heart to the extent that this passage suggests. Am I still avoiding your point(question), and if so, what is it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 1:00 PM Phat has replied

  
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