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Author Topic:   Pat Robertson denies Young Earth Creationism
Percy
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Posts: 20105
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.2


(5)
Message 46 of 86 (681979)
11-29-2012 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by NoNukes
11-28-2012 10:16 PM


Re: interesting?
NoNukes writes:

So old Stopped Clock Pat is right about something? Okay, but he'll be onto something else in five seconds and he'll be way wrong about it.

Aren't you being overly generous? Pat may have occasional days where he's right twice, but I'm sure it never happens for days on end like a stopped clock.

--Percy


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2714 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


(1)
Message 47 of 86 (681994)
11-29-2012 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by NoNukes
11-28-2012 10:16 PM


Re: interesting?

I suppose the idea that Pat Robertson is not YEC is interesting. But Robertson is a blooming idiot. There must be dozens of ways to demonstrate his idiocy without being the least bit controversial.

example...?

PS
Robertson apparently has been reading the concepts of Theistic Evolution interpretations of Genesis which demonstrate that the Bible is actually saying what science now tells us about the creation.

For instance, the Big Bang marked the moment of "In the beginning."
Previous to 1940, scientists argued that the Universe had always existed.

Robertson was right about 911, when he said that God was warning America thatthe neighboring patriarchs of Islam would crush the gentile sexually promiscuous behaviors that have over taken the USA since the feminist Sexual Revolution of 1960.

He was referring to the example of the Hebrew Patriarchs who god made so as to act just like those muslims and their Law, the Sharia of today.

But his anti-evolutionism is softening as he re-rreads genesis and hears the Theistic Ev interpretations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by NoNukes, posted 11-28-2012 10:16 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
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Posts: 4608
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 48 of 86 (682026)
11-29-2012 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by kofh2u
11-28-2012 7:30 PM


DWise1 writes:

Teach your children the truth!

By which you mean the science supported emergence of truth as far as is humanly possible to determine at this time?

By which I mean do not teach them lies. That should apply to matters of both science and non-science.

Obviously, the context here is in reference to scientific evidence, so do not teach blatant falsehoods about the evidence. Based on my 30 years of experience with the subject, "creation science" consists almost entirely of lies about science, lies about scientific evidence, and lies about whatever else they think might serve their agenda.


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 Message 40 by kofh2u, posted 11-28-2012 7:30 PM kofh2u has responded

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 49 of 86 (682032)
11-29-2012 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by kofh2u
11-29-2012 12:43 PM


Re: interesting?
NoNukes writes:

There must be dozens of ways to demonstrate his idiocy without being the least bit controversial.

kofh2u writes:


example...?

Robertson was right about 911.

That is not the example I would have picked. But I do have to thank you for pointing out my error. When I claimed that there must be dozens of ways to demonstrate Pat's idiocy without raising a controversy, I was wrong. There are far fewer. Perhaps there are none. My error was underestimating the ability of human beings to believe the ridiculous and to generate a faux controversy. Thanks for providing your own personal example. I was moved enough to cheer your message.

My point was that given the audience here, Faith could have made a better choice of example. But now I'm not so sure. I would have used the following as an example of Pat's lunacy

quote:
Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history.

Really? More terrible than the Inquisition, the Holocaust, and slavery? More terrible than anything the early Christians faced?

I might have mentioned his support of war criminal Charles Taylor.

Or Pat's ridiculous remarks about Haiti and Napolean which are not even close to being historically correct.

But some people do believe that crazy crap.

In any event, your point is well taken. Because there are people stupid enough to believe anything, everything is controversial.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by kofh2u, posted 11-29-2012 12:43 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 61 by kofh2u, posted 11-29-2012 7:25 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
Rahvin
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Posts: 3966
Joined: 07-01-2005


(2)
Message 50 of 86 (682033)
11-29-2012 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by NoNukes
11-29-2012 3:31 PM


Re: interesting?
Really? More terrible than the Inquisition, the Holocaust, and slavery? More terrible than anything the early Christians faced?

I would have simply pointed out that most liberals are, in fact, Christians. It's not just the comparison that's off-kilter - the claim that "Christians are the victims of systemic abuse and bigotry" is flat ridiculous on its face. They just feel like having their own bigotry exposed, or having their "rights" to force their beliefs onto those who do not share them removed, is somehow a form of bigotry.


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.”
- Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 11-29-2012 3:31 PM NoNukes has responded

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ICANT
Member (Idle past 64 days)
Posts: 6396
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 51 of 86 (682039)
11-29-2012 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by kofh2u
11-28-2012 3:17 PM


Hi kofh,

kofh2u writes:

Until God made the Sun and moon the time keepers of the Earth Time those first seven days could by any length even the duration of the six Geological Eras.

So if I divide 4 billion by 6 less 1,000 yrs for each era I would have the 6 geological eras you are talking about.

Each one of those eras would have consisted of 1 light period and 1 dark period as each had a evening and a morning .

Each era would consist of 666,665,666.6666667 years in each light and dark period.

If I then divide those years up as Genesis 1:5 - Genesis 2:3 I would have a light period of 333,332,833.3333333 years in the light period which would be followed by a dark period of 333,332,833.3333333 years.

Fast forward to the sixth day.

Animals and mankind is created in this 333,332,833.3333333 year period but there would be no food as there was a dark period of 333,332,833.3333333 years just prior to the light period they began to exist in.

I don't see any plants or life forms surviving 333,332,833.3333333 years of darkness.

I hope you can see the folly of this preverting of God's Word.

If you want to get a old earth and it comply with the Hebrew text you can do it. But your preposterous account is laughable.

I believe in a very old Earth. In fact I believe it has always existed in some form just not the form we see today. The Earth and Universe existed as matter and energy from the beginning whenever that was.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by kofh2u, posted 11-28-2012 3:17 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member (Idle past 64 days)
Posts: 6396
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 52 of 86 (682041)
11-29-2012 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
11-28-2012 3:28 PM


Hi Faith,

Faith writes:

Fine, if you can account for all those billions of years as occurring AFTER the Fall, which brought death into the Creation.

That is easy to accomplish.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

This light period ceased to exist prior to Genesis 1:2 as we find darkness existing there.

Now we are at a few thousand years ago which we find the Earth in a mess and God has to do a remodling job on it.

You can continue from here with the company story minus the man eating a fruit he was forbidden to eat and being cast out of a garden he was never in.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Nothing was forbidden.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 11-28-2012 3:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 64 days)
Posts: 6396
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 53 of 86 (682043)
11-29-2012 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by kofh2u
11-28-2012 7:30 PM


Hi kofh,

kofh2u writes:

I can not understand why the church people do not accept this Theistic Evolution teaching which has bbeen on the internet for a dozen years now.

Because it is a bunch of garbage, just like the universe beginning to exist in and from non-existence.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by kofh2u, posted 11-28-2012 7:30 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 86 (682044)
11-29-2012 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ICANT
11-29-2012 4:28 PM


Fast forward to the sixth day.

The sun and moon are already created by this point, Can't use those lengthy days now. I agree with you that this exercise is futile, but let's be fair about it.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 86 (682055)
11-29-2012 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Rahvin
11-29-2012 3:45 PM


Re: interesting?
They just feel like having their own bigotry exposed, or having their "rights" to force their beliefs onto those who do not share them removed, is somehow a form of bigotry.

Let's split the difference. Here is bigotry, Pat Robertson style...

"The store manager at Home Depot said Seasons Greetings to me at the store today. How Nazi! I'd rather be incarcerated with Korematsu and have all of my belongings confiscated than to endure that again. It was worse than a blanket laden with small pox.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Rahvin, posted 11-29-2012 3:45 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 56 of 86 (682065)
11-29-2012 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Faith
11-28-2012 11:09 AM


radiometric dating
Hi Faith, just a small question ...

No it is not Bishop Ussher, it is the Bible. We can all add up the numbers, we don't need Bishop Ussher although his calculations are probably the most trustworthy.

Pat cites the radiometric evidence for an old earth: what is your opinion on radiometric dating?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5714
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.3


Message 57 of 86 (682066)
11-29-2012 6:36 PM


Ken Ham answers Pat Robertson
This is apparently on facebook, but seems accessible (I was able to see it):

http://www.facebook.com/aigkenham/posts/252637821531002

Bring plenty of popcorn.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 6 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 58 of 86 (682068)
11-29-2012 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by nwr
11-29-2012 6:36 PM


Re: Ken Ham answers Pat Robertson
Bring plenty of popcorn.

Popcorn? Popcorn would imply that one could enjoy watching such stupidity in action. It's onve thing to read a blog about some big shot (Ken Ham, Kent Hovind), but to see real live people actively commenting on the ignorant shit they say is disheartening to say the least.


"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2714 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 59 of 86 (682069)
11-29-2012 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by dwise1
11-29-2012 2:55 PM



"creation science" consists almost entirely of lies about science, lies about scientific evidence, and lies about whatever else they think might serve their agenda.

That's true.

I have told those same people that they have very poor reading comprehension which they then apply to telling others what genesis says.
And they are not open to discussion about the things they claim that the Bible says.

But I believe that after 10 years on the internet, some of them, like Pat R , realize they must agree with Theistic Evolution interpretation.

They will insist that the six "days" were 24 hour durations when the book clearly says the 24 hour solar day was in existence until the 3rd era of the creative process as described in Genesis itself.


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ICANT
Member (Idle past 64 days)
Posts: 6396
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 60 of 86 (682070)
11-29-2012 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by kofh2u
11-29-2012 7:08 PM


Hi kofh,

kofh2u writes:

They will insist that the six "days" were 24 hour durations when the book clearly says the 24 hour solar day was in existence until the 3rd era of the creative process as described in Genesis itself.

What book you talking about.

If you are refering to the Bible give chapter and verse.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by kofh2u, posted 11-29-2012 7:08 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by kofh2u, posted 11-29-2012 8:41 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
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