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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 310 (682340)
12-01-2012 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 11:04 AM


What you say is really important and most interesting because that is exactly where all this eventually leads. The Genesis story in really an example of using the special numbers which the bible brings to our attention.

Numerology is always lame. But in this case what you are insisting on is that the numbers are more important than even the words in the Bible. And in my opinion, you need to provide some reason for that to be true before anyone ought to consider what you say.

For example, it is more important to you that there are seven days and seven eras than it is that none of the stuff Genesis says happens on day four is remotely as described whichever era you are claiming corresponds. I am not going to pick which era that is, because there is no rational choice that corresponds.

Essentially what you are proposing is this. Somebody made up a story, and the story has seven days in it because there are seven eras in some possible telling of scientific creation.

And in essence, my question for you is, give me one good reason to read more of this.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 11:04 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:18 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 15 of 310 (682341)
12-01-2012 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 10:44 AM


Seven, the hard way...
1. North American Plate,
2. Pacific Plate,
3. South American Plate,
4. African Plate,
5. Eurasian Plate,
6. Anartic Plate,
7. Australian Plate),

This is not a complete list of the plates.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 10:44 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:31 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 310 (682381)
12-01-2012 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 6:31 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
How could day four be the creation of an Earth clock if it corresponds to an age when neither the sun or the solar system existed.

in this otherwise step-by-step unfolding

Surely you are not suggesting that day four is the only step out of chronilogical order. How did plants exist before there were even galaxies.

And the Bible says nothing about tectonic plates. Those are your words.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:31 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:45 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 310 (682387)
12-01-2012 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 6:18 PM


Start a thread on that

This thread deals with the correspondence between your given Geological eras and the creation days specified in Genesis. I'm raising issues well inside of those bounds.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 6:18 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 8:26 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 35 of 310 (682392)
12-01-2012 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 7:45 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
If you move the creation of the sun to day one, how is that the least bit helpful? Isn't geological era one still well before protons existed or galaxies were formed?

Your argument makes things worse and not better. Your argument allows you to stretch out some of the days of creation, but not so that they map to the geological days you describe.

I'm not inclined to argue with you about when the sun and moon were created as given by the scripture. BUT if you want to argue that science allows them to exist before galaxies were formed, i won't accept that.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:45 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 9:01 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 36 of 310 (682394)
12-01-2012 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by kofh2u
12-01-2012 7:54 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
gathered together unto one place

On day two. Again well before ordinary matter even existed. Yet in reality, earth is formed from elements that were created inside stars.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by kofh2u, posted 12-01-2012 7:54 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 2:07 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 310 (682441)
12-02-2012 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 9:01 AM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
Big Bang expansion created the sun

So at least with this last post of yours we can agree that the eras on your Big Bang post do not agree with Genesis. That is progress. We can deal with the table in your original post.

First, scientists do not agree that the sun was created in the Big Bang. The sun was formed 4 billion years later. And well after the 400 million year dark ages.

Is it your contention that the Hadean eon corresponds to day 1?

ABE:

The sun formed about 9 billion years after the Big Bang which was some 8 billion years after the end of the dark age. 4 billion was incorrect.

Where were the lesser lights before they were placed in the firmament on day four.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 9:01 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 1:35 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 310 (682456)
12-02-2012 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
Fine. So explain the correspondence of Day 4 of Genesis to any Day four in your Geological Era.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 1:35 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 2:48 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 310 (682471)
12-02-2012 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 2:48 PM


Re: Seven, the hard way...
What about the placing of lesser lights in the firmament during day four? That is not what happened.

What about the creation of sea mammals before land mammals? That isn't according to the evidence.

The fourth day interpretation is a bit forced, IMO.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 2:48 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 6:38 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 51 of 310 (682477)
12-02-2012 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by kofh2u
12-02-2012 7:05 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
These seven groupings are extremely arbitrary. For the lower firmament, no mention of ice caps, ponds, streams, creeks. If you are going to include glaciers you should include the polar ice caps at least.

For the upper firmament, you include the ionosphere, but that overlaps with several other layers on the list. It usually is not included in a list of atmosphere layers. Yet you don't mention an ozone layer, or overlapping layers such as the heterosphere and the homosphere.

In short you are simply stopping at seven and forcing stuff up to seven if needed. Nothing special here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by kofh2u, posted 12-02-2012 7:05 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 310 (682480)
12-02-2012 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
12-02-2012 6:38 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
Is there any need to go beyond the first verse

I think there is. Science says nothing about God, so my arguments related to inconsistencies will deal with what Genesis says God did and when. You can make a different argument if you choose, but I won't use God did not do it as an argument.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 6:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 9:34 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 310 (682483)
12-02-2012 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
12-02-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
His current claim is that day 1 includes everything from the big bang up until the formation of the earth and that day 4 does not include making the sun and moon, but has some other meaning. I'm going with that for now. That still leaves him to explain what fixing the lesser lights in the firmament means. I've asked him twice to explain that.

I am calling that a day 4 problem, but I can see why you might insist that it is a day 1 problem. I prefer letting him have some rope.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 12-02-2012 9:34 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 12:05 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 310 (682494)
12-03-2012 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by kofh2u
12-03-2012 12:05 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
You are completely skipping the 'Let there be' portions of day four. But you don't do that for other days. That suggests to me that you are chosing the wrong meaning for set. Put seems to be the proper meaning. Let there be seems to create the stars.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 12:05 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 12:18 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 310 (682505)
12-03-2012 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by kofh2u
12-03-2012 10:45 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
You want us to believe that the dust cloud was void, formless, and also to constitute 'the waters' for God to move across. Then later on, you want the waters to be the ocean. I find that quite a bit of a stretch.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 10:45 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 310 (682524)
12-03-2012 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by kofh2u
12-03-2012 12:18 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
The choice among the EQUALLY valid meanings for "set" would be scientifically wrong if one purposefully avoided selecting "appointed, assigned, designated

I understand that. But are those choices are consistent with the rest of the verse? In particular, I'm asking to explain what the 'Let there be' portion of the verse describing day 4 is, and I'm also asking you why it should not be interpreted similar to the way the day 1 or day 3 verses are interpreted.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 12:18 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by kofh2u, posted 12-03-2012 1:17 PM NoNukes has responded

  
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