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Author Topic:   The SEVEN "DAYS" WERE GEOLOGICAL ERAS
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 77 of 310 (682518)
12-03-2012 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Panda
12-03-2012 11:44 AM


Re: Selective learning
?
Here is what I gleaned from the linkj we are referring to, which included the Planck Era:
A step by step guide to the birth of our Universe.
1) The Planck Era
No current theory of physics can describe what happened at this point in time, however we believe strongly that it was a singularity of pure energy at the start of time.
2) The Inflation Era
Part of the Universe expanded from billions of times smaller than a proton to something the size of a football field. This eras lifespan was a hundred billionth of a yoctosecond and was approximately 1,000 trillion trillion degrees centigrade.
3) The Quark Era
This period saw vast number of quark and anti quark (what is quark?) pairs forming from energy and then annihilating back to energy. Gluons and other particles also appeared. This eras lifespan was about 100 millionth of a yocto second and was approximately 10 billion billion degrees centigrade.
Time: It’s Relative and Does Not Even Exist
Close to the end of the quark era, the Electroweak force separated and the weak interaction, from then on, the forces of nature and physical laws were as they are now experienced. This era was about 1.1 microseconds and temperatures reached 1000 trillion degrees.
4) Hadron Era
Around the beginning of this era, quarks and antiquarks began combining to form particles called hadrons. These included baryons (protons and neutrons) anti baryons and mesons. This ear took 1 microsecond to complete an was approximately 10 trillion degrees.
5) Lepton Era
Leptons (elections, neutrinos and antiparticles) were very numerous, by the end of this era the electrons annihilated with positrons (anti elections). The lepton era took 1 millisecond and was approximately 1 billion centigrade, by this point in the Big bang the universe was 1000 billion kilometres in diameter.
6) Nucleosynthesis Era
Neutrons converged into protons as the Universe cooled, but when there was about one neutron for every seven protons, most remaining neutrons combined with protons to make helium neclei, each with two protons and two neutrons. This era was 1 second long and was about 10 billion centigrade. In the middle of the Nucleosynthesis Era the Universe stretched to 10 light years in diameter (94.6 trillion kilometres)
7) Opaque Era
During this lengthy era of 200 seconds the sea of matter particles were in a continual state of interaction with photons making the Universe foggy. Temperatures reached 100 million degrees.
At the end of the Opaque Era, many more free protons existed than helium neclei, or other atomic neclei. The scene was set for the first atoms to form. When they did about 9 hydrogen atoms were made for each helium atom. A few lithium a deuterium (heavy hydrogen) atoms also formed.
NOW, The Hadean Era = Matter Era
At the start of our present era, photons were free to travel through the Universe. Most electrons were bound to atoms until the first stars formed, reheating matter. The diameter of the Universe is currently 100 million light years and rising. (1 light year = 9.6 trillion kilometres)
From the way he presented the list, he included the Electro-weak Separation Theory as occurring "NEAR the end of the Quark Era."

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 Message 74 by Panda, posted 12-03-2012 11:44 AM Panda has replied

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 78 of 310 (682519)
12-03-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
12-03-2012 10:48 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
A cloud has form.
The word seems pretty good to describe the indistiguighable physical state of cloud-like ever changing mass of gases and rock.
VOID
Word: EDA = void
Pronounce: bo'-hoo
Strong: H922
Orig: from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:--emptiness, void.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 79 of 310 (682522)
12-03-2012 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by NoNukes
12-03-2012 6:29 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
You are completely skipping the 'Let there be' portions of day four. But you don't do that for other days. That suggests to me that you are chosing the wrong meaning for set. Put seems to be the proper meaning.
1) The choice among the EQUALLY valid meanings for "set" would be scientifically wrong if one purposefully avoided selecting "appointed, assigned, designated."
verb
Set
to put, set, put on, put upon, set, appointed, assigned, designated
2) I quoted those words: Gen. 1:15 And let them be( like time keepers?)... lights
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 82 of 310 (682531)
12-03-2012 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by NoNukes
12-03-2012 12:30 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
KOFH:
The choice among the EQUALLY valid meanings for "set" would be scientifically wrong if one purposefully avoided selecting "appointed, assigned, designated
NoNuke:
I understand that. But are those choices are consistent with the rest of the verse?
I fail to distinguish between what you call two uses of "Let there be."
The only inconsistency that I can see is the traditional attempt to apply the English language's idomatic use of "made" as if it means CREATED.
Neither "set" nor "made" in the Hebrew even hints at the meaning.
What are your sentiments in criticizing the tradition of misinterpreting those two very very defining misapplications to the verses in Gen 1:14-19?
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 83 of 310 (682533)
12-03-2012 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Panda
12-03-2012 12:51 PM


Re: Selective learning
Let's look for some sites which support the idea of explaining the BB is seven or even eight rather concise and generally acceptable ways for scientists to enumerate the general description of what happened.
It is true that the classification of the events are subjective.
The more detail and introspection into the split second incidents the more complex and numberous we can make the divisions of the event.
Here is another science course at a university which teaches the same seven general divisions of the BB expansion using t=Time as the barometer:
Astronomy 162
Stars, Galaxies, and
Cosmology
In our first semester of astronomy we were concerned primarily with our own Solar System. In this semester we broaden our perspective and consider the entire Universe. Much of the material for this semester is already on the Web at the Violence in the Cosmos site, but it is arranged in a different order than it will be when the following sequence is completed.
Let us now follow the approximate sequence of events that took place in the big bang in terms of the time since the expansion begins.
1) Time ~ 1/100 Second
At this stage the temperature is about 100 billion Kelvin and the density is more than a billion times that of water. The Universe is expanding rapidly and is very hot; it consists of an undifferentiated soup of matter and radiation in thermal equilibrium. This temperature corresponds to an average energy of the particles of about 8.6
MeV (million electron-Volts). The electrons and positrons are in equilibrium with the photons, the neutrinos and antineutrinos are in equilibrium with the photons, antineutrinos are combining with protons to form positrons and neutrons, and neutrinos are combining with neutrons to form electrons and protons. At this stage the number of protons is about equal to the number of neutrons.
2) Time ~ 1/10 Second
Now the temperature has dropped to several times 10 billion Kelvin and the density is a little over 10 million times that of water as the Universe continues to expand. Because a free neutron is slightly less stable than a free proton, neutrons beta decay to protons plus electrons plus neutrinos with a half-life of approximately 17 minutes. Thus, the initial approximately equal balance between neutrons and protons begins to be tipped in favor of protons. By this time about 62% of the nucleons are protons and 38% are neutrons.
The free neutron is unstable, but neutrons in composite nuclei can be stable, so the decay of neutrons will continue until the simplest nucleus (deuterium, the mass-2 isotope of hydrogen) can form. But no composite nuclei can form yet because the temperature implies an average energy for particles in the gas of about 2.6 MeV, and deuterium has a binding energy of only 2.2 MeV and so cannot hold together at these temperatures. This barrier to production of composite nuclei, which allows the free neutrons to be steadily converted to protons, is called the deuterium bottleneck.
3) Time ~ 1 Second
The temperature has dropped to about 10 billion K as the Universe continues to expand, and the density is now down to about 400,000 times that of water. At this temperature the neutrinos cease to play a role in the continuing evolution, but the deuterium bottleneck still exists so there are no composite nuclei and the neutrons continue to beta decay to protons. At this stage the protons abundance is up to 76% and the neutron abundance has fallen to 24%.
4) Time ~ 13.8 Seconds
The temperature has now fallen to about 3 billion K. The average energy of the particles in the gas has fallen to about 0.25 MeV. This is too low for photons to produce electron-positron pairs so they fall out of thermal equilibrium and the free electrons begin to annihilate all the positrons to form photons. The deuterium bottleneck still keeps appreciable deuterium from forming and the neutrons continue to decay to protons. At this stage the abundance of neutrons has fallen to about 13% and the abundance of protons has risen to about 87%.
5) Time ~ 3 Min 45 Sec
Finally the temperature drops sufficiently low (about 1 billion K) that deuterium nuclei can hold together. The deuterium bottleneck is thus broken and a rapid sequence of nuclear reactions combines neutrons and protons to form deuterium, and the resulting deuterium with neutrons and protons to form the mass-4 isotope of helium (alpha particles). Thus, all remaining free neutrons are rapidly "cooked" into helium. Elements beyond helium-4 cannot be formed because of the peculiarity that there are no stable mass-5 or mass-8 isotopes in our Universe and the next steps in the most likely reactions to form heavier elements would form mass-5 or mass-8 isotopes.
6) Time ~ 35 Minutes
The temperature is now about 300 million K and the Universe consists of protons, the excess electrons that did not annihilate with the positrons, helium-4 (26% abundance by mass), photons, neutrinos, and antineutrinos. There are no atoms yet because the temperature is still too high for the protons and electrons to bind together.
7) Time ~ 700,000 years
The temperature has fallen to several thousand K, which is sufficiently low that electrons and protons can hold together to begin forming hydrogen atoms. Until this point, matter and radiation have been in thermal equilibrium, but now they decouple. As the free electrons are bound up in atoms the primary cross section leading to the scattering of photons (interaction with the free electrons) is removed and the Universe (which has been very opaque until this point) becomes transparent: light can now travel large distances before being absorbed.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/hotbb.html

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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 85 of 310 (682536)
12-03-2012 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
12-03-2012 10:48 AM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
You are just making shit up and moving the goal posts at will.
But every denominational church moves the goal post to insist that God could have done all these things in violation of reason and science.
Those organizations saythat, when we finish reading Genesis, we will be so convinced that there is such a fantastic power as that kind of a god that we don't have to make reasonable sense from the Bible anyway.
What I believe my bracketed commentary does is demonstrate the alternative to such poor reading comprehension.
I oppose the long and traditional premise of a God who creates a rational universe which he let's men image in their mind,... BUT he violates ever sane and rational means by which you insist the Bible explains how he did this.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 88 of 310 (682540)
12-03-2012 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Taq
12-03-2012 1:30 PM


Re: Selective learning
That shoots a hole in your argument. The eras you are speaking of can be any number you choose.
My argument for seven divisions of time for the Earth's history does no focus on how many Eras there are.
The focus is on events, which are marked in the rocks in seven places.
Those events, however, correspond exactly with the 7 geological units that collect all the rock layers into 7 categories based upon catastrophic geological and biological changes from one set to the next.
For instance, there is the K-T Mass Extinction moment in the History of the Earth which separated the Mesozoic Era from the Cenozoic Era:
Here is another such event.
It separated the Paleozoic Era from the Mesozoic Era:
The Permo-Triassic (P-T) Extinction
The extinction at 253 Ma, the end of the Permian, is the largest of all time: the "Mother of Mass Extinctions" according to Douglas Erwin. The extinction was used by John Phillips 150 years ago to define the end of the Paleozoic Era and the beginning of the Mesozoic.
An estimated 57% of all families and 95% of all species of marine animals became extinct. The Paleozoic Fauna was very hard hit, losing especially suspension feeders and carnivores, and almost all the reef dwellers.
The Permo-Triassic (P-T) extinction is a major watershed in the history of life on Earth, especially for life in the ocean;

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 89 of 310 (682541)
12-03-2012 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by jar
12-03-2012 1:48 PM


Re: Genesis 1 is falsified at the first verse.
A cloud is not empty, not indistinguishable ruin or a vacuity.
The Hebrew definition says differently.
Using the dictionary to support what this choice isn't makinhg stuff up, but showing why and how this makes sense to me as a rational way to understand the text.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 92 of 310 (682548)
12-03-2012 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Panda
12-03-2012 2:07 PM


Re: Selective learning
Why only look at sites that provide 7 or 8 eras?
My thinking is that science information ordered in has the mnemonic power of that assocation is invaluable to people's cpability for order-out when they explain these concepts.
Since the subjective nature of the choice to do so is often presented, along the innumerable number of such nature sets of seven scientific facts, it makes sense to do so where possible, (which is almost always).
It also raises this very question you ask, which apparently is the reason the Biblke uses 7 and 12 so inordinately, too.
If you read back, you can see that we have already entertained this idea in:
Gen 1:1, the seven stages of the BB
Gen 1:6, the seven bodies of waters on earth.
Gen 1:7,8 the seven spheres that surround the planet earths above.
Gen 1:9 the seven large tectonic plates
Gen 1:10 the seven seas and the seven layer from the core of the earth outward.
(The point might be better understood when we consider a thread concerned the value of teaching Evolution while referencing the Book of Genesis is parallel using this analogous interpretation.)

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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 93 of 310 (682549)
12-03-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Taq
12-03-2012 3:02 PM


Re: Selective learning
There are more than 7 events marked in the rocks.
LOL
Of course.
Genesis and geology are referring to major events.
Those events are sub-divided too.
Seven (7) Major historically events are those which also compare one-to-one with the events of the history of the cosmic unfolding in Genesis to which we are referring in this thread.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 96 of 310 (682552)
12-03-2012 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Taq
12-03-2012 3:02 PM


Re: Selective learning
There is no objective reason why geologic history should be divided up into 7 sections
You could just as easily divide it up into 13 sections:
NOT "geological history."
We are NOT concerned with Geological History.
We ARE concerned with using geology to report the History of the Earth.
To make this distinction clear, when biologists want to describe the History of Life on earth, they use five division in the rocks where different evidence tells them that "the first sprouts of life on Earth" (gen 1:11) appeared during the Archean eon.
Then protozoan life forms appear only when the Protozoic eon begins.
This history then reports complex animal life, evidenced in the rocks of the Paleozoic era.
But the history inside the rocks then tells them that a mass extinction of almost all that life occurred, and the rocks in the Mesozoic layers show totally different species had arisen thereafter.
Another mass extinction and renaissance of totally different species is evidenced in the Cenozoic rocks.
Gen 1:11 And (The First Cause?), God, said, Let the earth bring forth (bacteria, i.e.; NOTE: the Hebrew word is not grass but means "first sprouts of life on Earth"), "grass," (from which condition shall evolve) the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, (all the Plant Kingdom to come), whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 99 of 310 (682561)
12-03-2012 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Coragyps
12-03-2012 3:29 PM


Re:Mnemonic learning
The reason the Bible used 7 and 12 and 40 so much is that it's based on traditions that included a whole buttload of numerology - and their flavor of numerology liked those particular numbers.
You have it backwards.
The reason for numerology is that ancient wise guys thought that 3, 5, 7 12, and such repetitious bible numers had some magic potential that could be used to count out the letters of names and such.
Actually, the reason was that the priests marked their hands in these mathematical set.
In the desert, before the Torah was written down, they did this so they could use the space on the fingers for a Loci Memory System to remember the Oral Torah and keep the facts straight:
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 101 of 310 (682563)
12-03-2012 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Panda
12-03-2012 3:33 PM


Re: Selective learning
But can you explain why you are ignoring the other eras?
The other eras exist.
You are choosing to ignore them.
Why?
Name five or six that I am ignoring if you can.
What I am doing is correlating the historical events listed in Genesis with those three major rock layers in the Pre-cambrian tmes before the rocks evidenced significant evidence of life,... and with the three major rock layers in the phranerozoic tmes when the rocks evidenced significant evidence of life.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 103 of 310 (682565)
12-03-2012 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by New Cat's Eye
12-03-2012 5:14 PM


Let me get this straight....
No, you get the idea but they are lined up like this:
1. Chaotian evening of the Formative/Cosmologic Era -
and the Cryptic morning of the Hadean Era/ = First Day
2. Early Imbrian evening of the Hadean Era -
and the Eoarchean morning of the Archaean Era/ = Second Day
3. Neo-archean evening of the Archaean Era-
and the Paleo-proterozoic morning of the Proterozoic Era/ = Third Day
4. Neo-proterozoic evening of the Proterozoic Era-
and the Cambrian morning of the Paleozoic Era/ = Fourth Day
5. Permian evening of the Paleozoic Era-
and the Triassic morning of the Mesozoic Era/ = Fifth Day
6. Cretaceous evening of the Mesozoic Era-
and the Tertiary morning of the Cenozoic Era/ = Six Day
7. Quaternary evening of the Cenozoic Era-
and the Recent Epoch morning of the Common Era/ = Seventh Day
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3820 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 104 of 310 (682566)
12-03-2012 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Taq
12-03-2012 5:47 PM


Re: Selective learning
You give 10, then.

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