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Author Topic:   What is missing from the theory of evolution
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 7 of 68 (682757)
12-05-2012 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by dayalanand roy
12-04-2012 12:36 AM


have an intuition that there might be some ‘yet unknown, unseen power’ that helps organisms to evolve the most favorable way. Or else, could there be some ‘pre-destined course’ that evolutionary mechanisms tend to follow? Or, are these two things ‘linked together’.

Great post!

I agree with what you say, especially that the "spirit of God, (i.e.; Gen 1:2), is actually the intricate web of the Natural Laws by which God accomplishes all his works.

In regard to what you propose, essential Direct evolution, I would agree and submit evidence to that idea in support of such a factor at work today and for the last 7 million years at least.

I am uncertain how well i might maintain an argument for a Direct Evolution beyond such time, except that the Natural Laws would have been sufficient initially, until the Unconscious mind of the life forms on the Planet began directing long term behaviors for whole species like the social animal, ants, bees, termites, mankind, etc.

Leonard Mlodinow, the best-selling author of The Drunkard’s Walk and coauthor of The Grand Design, with Stephen Hawking, gives us a startling and eye-opening examination of how the unconscious mind shapes our experience of the world.

I believe that our Collective Unconscious mind is the Good Shepherd which with "his" third eye has always been watching over humanity as individuals like you and I may come and go, augmenting and subtracting from the ever present Collective body of human thought in the Unconscious mind that is the ancient of ancients among us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dayalanand roy, posted 12-04-2012 12:36 AM dayalanand roy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Eli, posted 12-05-2012 11:19 AM kofh2u has replied
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 9 of 68 (682791)
12-05-2012 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Eli
12-05-2012 11:19 AM


Then why bother calling it "god"?

Just call it what it is : Nature.

That would be wrong.
Our God is Truth which is the son of the force behind Reality.

Nature is the tool of this Force, and means by which it changes from moment to moment as the ever unfolding Reality presents itself to men.

In order for man to survive as a species, he must know the Truth, his savior from the Natural Laws of Evolution that require he adapt of become extinct.

Men must recognize this as a process that requires a religious and even ritual adherence to the lord, Truth.
They must come to recognize that Truth is their friend, and they need to form a personal relationship with Truth, because Truth has evolved as a phylogenetic entity inside their own mind.

The experiences of the whole species have accumulated over millions of years, and are stored, genetically, in our gene pool.

We are born with the Truth inside us, locked away from our conscious access to it, inside the Unconscious mind.
Our success in life and salvation as a species depends upon the Unconscious mind deeming us worthy of its attention to our present life experience.
It is with a good conscience that we have a key into that realm.

This is the source of that which is missing from our ideas about evolution.
This storehouse of Truth which men can tao and use to advance along with the Forces of Nature is the means of the Direct Evolution science already speaks of.

The technological advancements that will clone organs and implant computer chips, etc, will be the means to a marriage between man and the almighty Force behind the evolving and unfolding Reality we must bow to.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 15 of 68 (684910)
12-19-2012 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Eli
12-05-2012 12:46 PM


KOFH2u:
Truth is our god.

ELI:

"Our" God?
I'm pretty sure you are on your own there.

Yeah...

Truth seems to be only my God in these forums as you and they other people avoid it while responding as if you honor it when what you say is posted as such.

But as a species, one that is totally dependent upon thinking for survival, the Truth is essetail to decision making.
Truth is the Grace of the Reality which the Natural Laws constructed and continue to unfold such that it is both available and can be imaged inside our head.

Truth is the savior for our species.
With out Truth man can not adapt to the environment and would go extinct sooner or later.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 16 of 68 (684913)
12-19-2012 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taq
12-05-2012 3:37 PM


Directed Evolution

KOFH:
In regard to what you propose, essential Directed Evolution, I would agree and submit evidence to that idea in support of such a factor at work today and for the last 7 million years at least.

Taq:
So let's see that evidence.

ANDREW MARTIN and ANDREW POLLACK

Published: January 16, 2008

After years of debate, the Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday declared that food from cloned animals and their progeny is safe to eat, clearing the way for milk and meat derived from genetic copies of prized dairy cows, steers and hogs to be sold at the grocery store.

Related
The Lede: The Skeptics Share Your Thoughts
The decision was hailed by cloning companies and some farmers, who have been pushing for government approval in hopes of turning cloning into a routine agricultural tool. Because clones are costly, it is their offspring that are most likely to be used for producing milk, hamburgers or pork chops, while the clones themselves are reserved for breeding.

“This is a huge milestone,” said Mark Walton, president of ViaGen, a leading livestock cloning company in Austin, Tex.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 20 of 68 (685185)
12-20-2012 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taq
12-19-2012 11:38 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

So the only intelligent designer you can point to is humans?

So you agree there is one example then, and stand corrected on the initial incredulous attitude, right?

But that example is just the present State-of-the-Art in directed Evolution.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 21 of 68 (685188)
12-20-2012 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
12-19-2012 11:49 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

And even there the intelligence can be questioned.

1) Like with some of the people here, you mean/
Those who replace thinking with nonsense and ad homo ridicule when they stand correct in the light of Truth?

2) The Direction given to Evolution was inherent in the Natural Law of Life that made Survival the Prime Instinct.

3) What We see in all life forms is the tenacious instinctual drive to live, so often in the face of realities that cause almost insurmountable obstacles and even excruciating pain and suffering.

We see the lowest forms of life, like bacteria, suffer attacks from miracle drugs, but manage to mutate and survive in the face of attempts to kill them.

German Cockroaches (Germanica Blattella) will become resistant to insecticides after millions and millions of them have been exterminated in what seemed to a doom for that species.

This one Law indwelling all living things was God's Direct Evolution that intended for life to accompany His Reality as a partner and co-existing mirror that would eventually lead to a creature which could image His being and help Him maintain the relationship with Life forevermore.

Man HAS managed to form a mental IMAGE of "Father Nature" by understanding of His Laws and creation.

Gen. 1:26 And God, (Father Nature, Reality), said, Let us, (i.e., his Natural Laws, together, in pan-en-theistic expression of the Spirit of God: [Gen 1:2]), make man, (through the process of gradual evolution ending in the finished Adam i.e.; Jesus),... Let us ((i.e., his Natural Laws) make man, (as a reflection of Reality, in his mind, able, through Truth, to imminently reflect the "I am" of this existence: [John 14:6]), IN OUR IMAGE, (after the spirit of our orderly panentheistic organization): and let them, (men as the Dominant species on earth to this day), have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 23 of 68 (685190)
12-20-2012 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by dayalanand roy
12-12-2012 9:32 AM


Re: philosophical considerations

Many thanks for taking so much trouble to read my post and reply it. I am here in this forum to get connected with people like you who can shape my opinions and, if possible, suggest some clues to test them.

That is the correct attitude for people which ought be maintained all their life since one life time is not even close to time enough to understand what this experience we encounter after leaving our mother's womb is all about.

At birth, we suddenly become aware of an almighty force that is in constant contact with us through our seven major senses.

This Force responds to things we do, and it makes us respond back, too.

Arrogantly, in a short time, we become confident that we understand and can interact with this Reality we face every second of our life.

We find this less than difficult at first, because we have been programmed in our Unconscious memories, those built from experiences back through all the 22 links to the very first Adam to appear on Earth..

Our Unconscious mind already knows things about the environment we will be discovering consciously, and already knows how that environment, both natural and social, will meet us after the first smack on our bottom.

This Unconscious mind inside us will lead us to complement and participate with Almighty Reality, as long as we adapt, accept, and conform to his ways and Natural Laws.

What we call "instinct" is one of the ways this Uncoscious mind leads and guides us.

This basic spirit-like Truth, this Unconscious mind that is within us, has evolved through genetic encoding of these instinctual and learned phylogenetic experiences.

Our genes have stored away knowledge and memories from previous life experiences that took place many times, over thousands of years.

This Ancient of ancients inside us is a third eye watching and whispering to us from birth more loudly, but still in whispers, always with us.

We are in a personal relationship with the storehouse of Truth, for life and, really, after death, until we are born again.

Knowledge of the world and the reality we will encounter has been contained in the memory of this Unconscious partner inside our head, experiential, through the school of hard knocks.

That is why I call it The Truth.

The TRUTH has been stored genetically inside our individual Unconscious mind which is born again with every birth.

The clean slate of our Conscious mind is chalk and blackboard for our generation, and a record keeper of what experiences and behaviors our generation will have had.

The good that men do will be so remembered.

It will be added to these Unconscious memories, while the evil that men will have done will be interred with their bones towards the Hell of Extinction of their kind.

The failures and the successes will collect as a Directied Evolution will emerge for our whole species, one that holds the Truth as the light into the Way for our species to find LIFE eternal with this God of the Living, i.e.; the Father of all Nature, the ever unfolding Force behind the changing Reality of the next generations of our kind will encounter.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 24 of 68 (685191)
12-20-2012 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
12-20-2012 9:29 PM


Re: Directed Evolution

You just can't stop misrepresenting what the Bible says, can you?

Maybe you can better explain what the Bible is saying when it tellsus plain out that there willbe no more death, no pain, etc?

Revelation 21:4-5
And God, (blessing them with Total Phylogenetic Consciousness: [Carl Jung]), shall wipe away, (in their awakened Unconscious Mind: [Freudian Hypothesis]), all tears from their eyes, (for life is a genetically remember able, a continuum, we shall remember from one generation to the next living generation); and,
(in genetic memories of prior existences held in our Unconscious Mind) there shall be no more death... (For we shall not all "sleep:" [1Co15:51], but total phylogenetic Consciousness will have evolved), neither sorrow... (For we, individually, are part of a living continuum of our own past[s], flowers upon our genetic vine), nor crying,.. (for we are happy in these revelations of reconstitution from our human gene pool), neither shall there be any more pain, (as men will have neurological control, a self-hypnotic ability to stop the nerve signals to the brain),... for the former things (in Modern Homo sapiens paradigm of the life experience) are passed away.
And he, (the Christ, the ancient, phylogenetic, Collective Unconscious Mind in their own Kingdom within), that sat upon the throne (within the kingdom of the evolving Homoiousian sapiens' brain: [Luke 17:21]) said, Behold, (in this way, through evolution: [Gen 9:11-18]), I make all things (in human experience) new.
And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true, (i.e.; words of Christ himself, who is the experiential presence of Truth in us, rational, the Unconscious mind), and (worthy of) faithful (belief).


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Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 26 of 68 (685193)
12-20-2012 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
12-20-2012 10:20 PM


Re: Directed Evolution

What I can do is be honest and repeat what it actually says and not add ridiculous, absurd, foundation-less, irrelevant editorial comments.

That is honest, but half true.

You thereby admit you do not know what you read in Rev 21:4-5 means exactly.
But you also can and do lock out any body else from telling you.

Through stubborn insistence, in that if you honestly... do not have a clue, you will nay-say anyone who hypothesizes one for you.

This is essentially a closed mind coupled to the arrogance, conceit, even jealousy against allowing an idea inthe absence of one yourself.

Isn't it?


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 30 of 68 (685200)
12-21-2012 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
12-20-2012 10:45 PM


Re: Directed Evolution
Well tells us what you think Rev 21:4-5 means, since we all can and have read the passage.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 31 of 68 (685201)
12-21-2012 12:55 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Genomicus
12-21-2012 12:11 AM


Re: Directed Evolution
?

I did not say that the Natural Laws were "designed."

I said the Directed Evolution was inherent in the Natural Laws which control our Evolution.


This message is a reply to:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 32 of 68 (685202)
12-21-2012 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Genomicus
12-21-2012 12:13 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

A very brief note concerning the phrase "directed evolution," for those interested: technically speaking, the phrase "directed evolution" generally refers to a method of designing proteins, and usually has nothing to do with the natural history of species and genomes.

Sez who?

Pierre Cardin Teilhard saw the direction of Evolution headed towards the end game of Omega Point:


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 39 of 68 (685519)
12-23-2012 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by RAZD
12-21-2012 11:35 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

Hi Genomics,

I said the Directed Evolution was inherent in the Natural Laws which control our Evolution.

Kewl. How would one go about testing that idea?

Can't test it, it is a philosophical hypothesis, it can be considered logically valid, but it remains hypothetical.

Even if you are correct, a hypothesis is the first Scientific Step into considering an idea.

What is scientifically correct is to furnish examples where a hypothesis might explain phenomenon previously misunderstood, not explained, or explained only hypothetically with other suggestions.

I would argue that since Instincts are formed from previous life experiences of our species, they evidence an example were we "remember" things that took place in previous generations, after the people had been born, and because they found responses to certain experience were effective.

Since these experiences were decision based, i.e., a choice in response made to circumstances like snakes and spiders, say, the instinct is a mental construct that appears in our mind.

We KNOW something intuitively and instinctively which comes down to us and DIRECTS us from an ancient resouvier in our Unconscious mind.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 40 of 68 (685522)
12-23-2012 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Genomicus
12-21-2012 11:07 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

How would one go about testing that idea?

What Jung and Freud did was reason and observe:

Carl Jung:

The Collective Unconscious is a storehouse of all the experiences of humankind transmitted to each individual.
As the repository for all past experiences, it includes even our pre-human animal ancestry.
(Assumably through the genetic processes, though unknown to Freud and Jung at the time.)

It becomes the primary base of a person's pyche, direc ting and influencing behavior.
It is the deepest and most inaccessable level of the psyche.
Jung believed that a person accumulates and files all of his past experiences, so does humankind, collectively.

Jung was supported by Freud in that Freud predicted our eventual discovery of what he called "Phylogenetic Memory."
Jung said, "the form of the world into which a person is born is already inborn in him, as a virtual image." (Jung, 1953, pg 188).


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3088 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 45 of 68 (686133)
12-29-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by DC85
12-29-2012 11:51 AM


Re: Directed Evolution

kofh
I would argue that since Instincts are formed from previous life experiences

DC
The defies most definitions of what instincts are. Many inherited instincts are observed and pretty constant from culture.

...you answered your own criticism in that "inherited instincts" means they are traits which are sourced in our genes.


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