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Author Topic:   Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 301 of 316 (717613)
01-29-2014 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2014 9:59 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Like, I have some money and I know a doctor, would I be able to give him my money for his service under single payer system? Or would it have to come from the single-payer?
Here in the UK you can opt to pay for private healthcare through someone like Bupa, and you can pay for this with private health insurance or out of your own back pocket. I've had a few issues that I've dealt with privately during the times I could afford to do so.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 302 of 316 (717681)
01-30-2014 10:17 AM


ACA success
Looks like the ACA is more and more successful.
The exchanges seem to be already providing lower cost health insurance. This may be a very positive and large step toward single payer.
quote:
Premiums on the new government health exchanges are lower, across the board, than the average premium paid by the majority of Americans who have employer-based coverage, according to a new report released Thursday.
This suggests that the Obamacare exchanges may be an appealing option for employers looking to provide enticing but affordable benefits to their workers, the team at PwC’s Health Research Institute said.
"Employers today are frustrated by the cost and hassle of providing health insurance, so they are looking for an affordable alternative to keep their employees healthy, said Ceci Connolly, managing director of PwC's Health Research Institute. This may be an option for employers in the not-too-distant future.
Connolly’s team analyzed all of the various insurance policies offered on the 15 exchanges run by states and the District of Columbia, plus those run by the federal government for the rest of the states. They compared them to data on employer-provided plans.
In 2014 health insurance plans offered on the ACA’s 51 new exchanges are on average, comparable to, or lower priced than, similar employer-based plans. In addition, most exchange shoppers have a wider variety of plans than the typical employer-based offering, the report reads.
More at the link
Why your boss may be eyeing the Obamacare exchanges
I could never understand why corporations were against single payer and/or ACA. It gets them out of the health care business and frees up lots of resources. Unfortunately, the ultimate corporate decision makers don't care about the corporation they care about their personal wealth.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Taq, posted 01-31-2014 4:32 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 303 of 316 (717771)
01-31-2014 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Theodoric
01-30-2014 10:17 AM


Re: ACA success
Looks like the ACA is more and more successful.
The exchanges seem to be already providing lower cost health insurance. This may be a very positive and large step toward single payer.
The biggest improvement is that no one can be denied coverage, and there is a cap on how much health insurance companies can charge. Before the ACA, we had a situation where people who needed health care the most were the least likely to have access to health care.
This has been balanced out by requiring everyone to purchase health insurance, including those that were least likely to purchase insurance in the past.
The ACA did succeed on these two major fronts: get everyone covered, and have everyone paying into it. The real question now is why do we need a middle man?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Theodoric, posted 01-30-2014 10:17 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 305 by dronestar, posted 01-31-2014 4:59 PM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 304 of 316 (717772)
01-31-2014 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Taq
01-31-2014 4:32 PM


Re: ACA success
The real question now is why do we need a middle man?
I agree, but to get there we are going to have to take small steps and drag some people like CS kicking and screaming.
Do not underestimate the right wing propaganda machine. It is a lot of voters fooled into believing their lies.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Taq, posted 01-31-2014 4:32 PM Taq has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 305 of 316 (717774)
01-31-2014 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Taq
01-31-2014 4:32 PM


Re: ACA success
Taq writes:
get everyone covered
Tragically, I don't think ANYone is expecting 100% participation in the ACA. I read that america will still have millions who are not covered.
Increasing medicare to all ages would guarantee 100% coverage.

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 Message 303 by Taq, posted 01-31-2014 4:32 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2014 5:34 PM dronestar has not replied
 Message 307 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2014 7:24 AM dronestar has not replied
 Message 313 by Taq, posted 02-05-2014 6:07 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 306 of 316 (717775)
01-31-2014 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by dronestar
01-31-2014 4:59 PM


Re: ACA success
It seems there are millions that will fore go coverage and pay the fine in order to make a political statement.
quote:
38% say they are more likely to pay the fine the government will assess most Americans who lack health insurance.
Source
A pretty good commentary on that from Markos Moulitsas.
quote:
That 38 percent generally approximates the conservative fringe of America, you know, the ones who clung to George W. Bush to the bitter end, the ones who believe Obama was born in Kenya, the ones sickened by America's creeping communism. There are probably a handful in that 38 percent who are choosing to pay the fine for non-ideological reasons. But there are many more who are doing so to spite the president.
Because, you see, placing yourself at risk of financial ruin, severe disability, or even death is totally worth it in pursuit of undermining the communist plot hatched at the Heritage Foundation. It's like eating crappy, unhealthy fast food in order to spite liberals. Or refusing to exercise because Michelle Obama.
All these things increase the odds of premature incapacitation or death, and ... that's supposed to make liberals sad? Maybe it does, since we don't think "empathy" is a dirty word. But holding your breath until you die is an odd way to spite your political enemies.
Millions to go uninsured ... to spite Obama?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 307 of 316 (717779)
02-01-2014 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by dronestar
01-31-2014 4:59 PM


Re: ACA success
Increasing medicare to all ages would guarantee 100% coverage.
And we can get on that train in a couple more generations or so. The idea that by then the ACA will have become the firm conservative position to be defended as a god given right is a bit humorously sad.

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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 308 of 316 (717813)
02-01-2014 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by AZPaul3
02-01-2014 7:24 AM


Re: ACA success -- now medicare transition
Increasing medicare to all ages would guarantee 100% coverage.
And we can get on that train in a couple more generations or so. ...
No, we need to demand that the age eligibility drop 1 year every year. We can sell it to the cons as a means to ensure the success of medicare will eventually relieve the problems of the ACA ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2014 7:24 AM AZPaul3 has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 309 of 316 (717825)
02-01-2014 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by RAZD
02-01-2014 8:47 PM


Re: ACA success -- now medicare transition
No, we need to demand that the age eligibility drop 1 year every year.
Demand away. Just remember it took us 50+- years to get from medicare to ACA. Going further will not be any less difficult, nor any less long. That is unless the Dems can break the Rep hold on the house without losing the senate. IMO, even then a gradual move toward universal one-payer medical will not start anytime soon.
I think we are into ACA for at least 20+ years unless the Reps sweep the congress and the White House in which case we will be right back to the 1960s.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by ramoss, posted 02-01-2014 11:08 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 310 of 316 (717826)
02-01-2014 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by AZPaul3
02-01-2014 10:54 PM


Re: ACA success -- now medicare transition
The ACA is set up to allow states to decide to go to one payer. Vermont has 'expanded elligibility' to just include about everyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by AZPaul3, posted 02-01-2014 10:54 PM AZPaul3 has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 311 of 316 (717846)
02-02-2014 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by ramoss
02-01-2014 11:08 PM


Re: ACA success -- now medicare transition
and that is the way to break the republican strangle in the house.
one state at a time.
and just as the republican governors are finding that the ACA has benefits and are signing on, so too they will find that state expanding medicare cuts costs further and provides better coverage.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 312 of 316 (717904)
02-02-2014 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by ramoss
02-01-2014 11:08 PM


Re: ACA success -- now medicare transition
Are you and RAZD trying to tell me there is some silver lining to this future before us?
Let's hope.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 313 of 316 (718237)
02-05-2014 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by dronestar
01-31-2014 4:59 PM


Re: ACA success
Tragically, I don't think ANYone is expecting 100% participation in the ACA. I read that america will still have millions who are not covered.
I did use a misguided and sweeping generalization. It is true that there will still be some that slip through the system, but the vast majority who were not covered before are now covered.
Increasing medicare to all ages would guarantee 100% coverage.
It would also cause the Koch brothers' heads to explode, which may actually be a good thing.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 314 of 316 (718413)
02-06-2014 3:16 PM


Summary
If I had to pick one thing that most hurts the US healthcare system it would have to be the Republican party.
If they were truly interested in fiscal responsibility and lowering costs then they should be behind universal single payer care via expanded medicare.
Coming in a close second are the health care corporations that are intent on making obscene profits from the misery of others.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 315 of 316 (718432)
02-06-2014 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by RAZD
02-06-2014 3:16 PM


Re: Summary
RAZD writes:
If they were truly interested in fiscal responsibility and lowering costs then they should be behind universal single payer care via expanded medicare.
Both the republican and democrat leaders have shown repeatedly and clearly they are not interested. I keep reminding people that Obama made back door deals with the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies over the people's best interests. But the people keep voting the same 90+% back into office. There seems to be an amazingly simple and easy solution to the VOTERS, yet . . .

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