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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 2400 of 5179 (719943)
02-19-2014 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 2398 by Straggler
02-19-2014 11:27 AM


Re: Some more data
But why would anyone have that as an "ultimate goal"...?
Disarming the citizens would make it easier for a coup to take place, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2398 by Straggler, posted 02-19-2014 11:27 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2407 by Straggler, posted 02-19-2014 1:12 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 2411 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2014 1:56 PM Phat has replied
 Message 2412 by Theodoric, posted 02-19-2014 3:24 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 2416 by ringo, posted 02-20-2014 11:19 AM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 3247 of 5179 (746722)
01-09-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3246 by Faith
01-09-2015 11:44 AM


Re: The state of "Arms", 1791
and yet the founders were as much sinners as you and I. There is no superior enlightenment that the founders had more than anyone else.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3246 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 11:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3248 by Faith, posted 01-09-2015 12:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 3255 of 5179 (746825)
01-10-2015 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2411 by RAZD
02-19-2014 1:56 PM


Re: which coup do you mean?
The pen is mightier than the sword. Unless the sword being referred to is the word of God.
Personally, regarding fantasy scenarios etc...
If the planet is in fact involved in a spiritual war...by this I mean if one group of people wish to oppress another group of people...guns won't solve the problem.
Many of today's Christians are knowingly or unknowingly in love with the idea of blind patriotism. Some even see Christianity as patriotic and very American.
The fact is, however..that Jesus never was an American...nor even of the standard Western mindset.
Guns, however...are.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2411 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2014 1:56 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 4488 of 5179 (773651)
12-05-2015 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4485 by Percy
12-04-2015 8:44 PM


Re: Gun Danger in Other Countries:
These statistics force us to really look at the big picture in terms of spending more money on security/bombs or spending more on education and quality of life in the US.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4485 by Percy, posted 12-04-2015 8:44 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 5045 of 5179 (821145)
10-03-2017 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by jar
12-15-2012 7:34 PM


Mental Health
jar writes:
There are some real problems in the US, a lousy health care system, almost non-existent mental health system, an increasing gap between poor and rich, dynamic changes in what jobs are available and a for shit education system, almost non-existent news distribution and education, a large percentage of the population that are totally out of touch with reality and a large percentage of the population that think only in bumper sticker sized bites.
We do need change but what is needed is a whole cultural makeover.(...)When I was young and growing up everyone I knew in the city, the suburbs, the country had guns. A family room or den without a gun rack or cabinet with ammo, rifles, shotguns and pistols seemed empty, like something was missing. A pickup without a gun rack with at least a "Dirty-Thirty" or shotgun and the windows down, door unlocked parked by the curb would have looked naked. A boy or girl at school without a knife would be laughable.
Well, since then the guns haven't changed much. Since then the knives haven't changed much.
The semi-automatic argument is coming up again. The shooter in Vegas was apparently a successful accountant and a compulsive gambler.
jar writes:
The people though have changed. The problem is not guns, not knives, it's people.
I'm wondering whether the focus should be on the bump stock devices found in the hotel room or on the brain disorders associated with compulsive gambling? The news interviewed the shooters brother who said he was flabbergasted that his brother was capable of anything such as this. The media will focus on the number of guns that the man owned but the red flag that caught my attention was the compulsive gambling. It really does change the brain.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 12-15-2012 7:34 PM jar has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 5048 of 5179 (821186)
10-03-2017 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5046 by Percy
10-03-2017 10:15 AM


Re: Comedians on Mass Shooting in Las Vegas
Communication in a free society is encouraged. A tweet from a president has much less impact than a talk show host who uses his normally comedic platform to address the reality that we all live in and share. Props to Kimmel and others.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5046 by Percy, posted 10-03-2017 10:15 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 5051 of 5179 (821199)
10-03-2017 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 5050 by Tanypteryx
10-03-2017 2:59 PM


Re: Las Vegas
Colorado man killed in Las Vegas mass shooting previously gave haunting description of becoming a target of gunfire. Wow! Now his facebook post has become part of his memorial!
quote:
It was never fear, to be honest, mass confusion. Sensory overloadfollowed by the most amount of natural adrenaline that could never be duplicated through a needle, Roybal wrote in the July 18 message that mentioned bullets pinging off metal all around him.
These words will be stuck with me forever. I will never forgive this world from taking him away, his girlfriend Maree Elmore wrote in a Facebook post on Monday referring to Roybal’s self-answered question: What’s it like being shot at?
How would you like your EvC posts to become part of your memorial?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5050 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-03-2017 2:59 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5052 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-03-2017 3:29 PM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


(2)
Message 5053 of 5179 (821201)
10-03-2017 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5052 by Tanypteryx
10-03-2017 3:29 PM


Re: Las Vegas
I was (as usual) thinking of myself...but the question goes out to all of us. What we say today may be in the headlines timorrow...if we were a victim. Which brings up another question...wonder if the alleged shooter craved the excitement of becoming infamous? Perhaps the psychologists will eventually figure him out...but the bigger question is when society itself will collectively figure itself out?
Add by edit: A message for Congress:
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5052 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-03-2017 3:29 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 5071 of 5179 (821279)
10-04-2017 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5064 by GDR
10-04-2017 4:15 PM


Forensic Panel Profiles Vegas Killer
The Forensic Panelchairman, Dr.Michael Welner who is a forensic psychiatrist, described a broad profile of Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas mass murderer. I was surprised that he never touched on the compulsive gambling issue, but he did indicate the following:
quote:
Dr. Welner tells us that the first place to begin building an understanding of the killer is to look at his victims. In this case, Paddock had no relationship to the victims. Paddock’s victims were also people who represented Americana and guns.
This puts Paddock into a small category of killers who commit a stranger mass homicide. The Dr. then lists the two categories of stranger mass homicides:
  • Persons trying to transcend notoriety to become famous like James Holmes (Dr. Welner worked the James Holmes case)
  • Persons who kill for a cause
    Dr. Welner dismisses the possibility of Paddock killing for notoriety sake because of that:
    is a young man’s crime. And this is a sixty-four-year-old with no dramatic mental illness, no major decline, someone who’s intact.
    Then he focuses his comments on where the evidence has brought him:
    I think if we want to understand what’s behind the crime we should look at James Hodgkinson, the shooter of Congressman Scalise because that crime was intended to be a spectacle of much bigger scope.
    A spectacle is designed to either have some derivative impact or to instigate some cause discussion.
    []People who commit mass killings of folks that they don’t know have to be detached and he’s detached. He’s many floors away, he’s killing them through a scope, they’re dehumanized.
    absolutely people who are gun enthusiasts and who are populists or nationalists in this country are dehumanized. They’re demonized.
    I travel all over the United States and I don’t experience hatred. I turn on the television and I see these people demonized.
    Dr. Welner then cites the CBS executive who said the concert-goers deserved what they got and added that CNN is going to have to answer for how they demonize gun enthusiasts and how CNN actually contributes to mass shooting. And, I believe that they do..
  • According to the doctor it’s the constant drumbeat coming from the mainstream media that allowed Paddock to feel righteously justified in committing mass murder
    So here is my take on this. Right now, the Right Wing is in control. They are backed by the vast money of the N.R.A. and in addition, are fueling a culture of paranoia that depicts America struggling against the evil in the world, such as Kim Jong Un.
    The Republican majority most definitely does not want to focus on the issue of gun violence or gun ownership rights. our own jar has himself stated that its not the guns...its the people. So its a cultural makeover that is needed. The right-wing ideology depicts a hostile world with many enemies. They salute and glorify police and military personnel. Our culture is authoritarian. The fear of a globalist agenda is being presented as part of the counter agenda of the nationalist right wing.
    Of course, the leftist ideology is in control of much of the media...though unlike Faith, I do not demonize leftist ideology as any worse than far-right authoritarian ideology. I too believe that it is the people. On a bad day, I might blame Satan, but I will agree that it is our collective responsibility to understand our national psychosis.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5064 by GDR, posted 10-04-2017 4:15 PM GDR has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5072 by PaulK, posted 10-05-2017 12:32 AM Phat has replied
     Message 5078 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2017 10:54 AM Phat has replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 5079 of 5179 (821301)
    10-05-2017 11:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 5078 by Theodoric
    10-05-2017 10:54 AM


    Re: Forensic Panel Profiles Vegas Killer
    I suppose it was an assumption. Lemme do a bit of googling and sift through the propaganda... and while I'm at it I'll make another assumption. This whole idea of "fake news" has some validity in my mind and I dont believe that it is either a Leftist plot or a Far Right plot. These days there is so much information out there and it cannot be taken without question. When I was growing up, we had the World Book Encyclopedia as our internet, and it was usually a trusted source. These days, however, I can find ten articles on the internet and need to actively discriminate as to the best most accurate one.
    If I run it through my bias towards Theism, Conservativism or Liberalism, I will arrive at differing lists for the most accurate. How does one remain unbiased when choosing which sources are the closest to the truth?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5078 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2017 10:54 AM Theodoric has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5081 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2017 11:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 5082 of 5179 (821307)
    10-05-2017 11:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 5072 by PaulK
    10-05-2017 12:32 AM


    Re: Forensic Panel Profiles Vegas Killer
    PaulK writes:
    Reading that I have to ask if the guy is even a real forensic psychiatrist. It looks like a nasty attempt to forestall any call for restrictions on gun ownership, and suppress criticism of the far right. Even a veiled threat that verges on terrorism.
    Well, I saw him on a conservative news source: Fox & Friends. Evidently he is the real deal, although I agree that his answer seemed designed to strike back at liberal criticism...so his "authority" is being used to strike a blow in favor of far right ideology against leftist ideology.
    Were it I, I would have added two observations.
    1) The overwhelming majority of mass killers who use guns are male. Guns are a phallic symbol of aggression.
    2) The compulsive gambling is a huge issue as to what may have triggered his obsessive, detached outburst. Also a reason why he may have been suicidal to begin with. An angry white male.
    Was his attack politically motivated? Was he one of Trumps base? If so, why kill country music folks? They are Trumps base too, 60% or so plus.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5072 by PaulK, posted 10-05-2017 12:32 AM PaulK has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5083 by PaulK, posted 10-05-2017 11:24 AM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 5086 of 5179 (821317)
    10-05-2017 12:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 5085 by Percy
    10-05-2017 11:42 AM


    Re: Forensic Panel Profiles Vegas Killer
    I disagree with the notoriety angle. I think it was more of a premeditated response to depression triggered by a losing streak.
    Here is my synopsis:
    He was a compulsive gambler. Politically, he was likely a conservative. He had genetic mental health issues, but these normally would not have been the predisposing factor. The factor was, as Percy suggested, that he was a compulsive/obsessive OCD brain damaged individual. We don't know what exactly he was angry at or whom, but it appears to be non-political...despite the forensic claim that the media needs to be more sensitive to gun owners.
    I agree totally that he had lost much of his money and felt that he was failing (losing) at life. The attack was premeditated, and the fact that it was set up at a casino seems to suggest that he was mad at having his luck run out and his money(dreams) taken from him. So he lashed out in a depersonalized way. The target in my mind was Las Vegas itself.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    An atheist is someone who has no invisible means of support~Bishop Fulton J.Sheen

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5085 by Percy, posted 10-05-2017 11:42 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5088 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2017 1:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 5090 by PaulK, posted 10-05-2017 2:01 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 5099 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-06-2017 2:30 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 5110 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-10-2017 9:22 PM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 5123 of 5179 (823341)
    11-09-2017 12:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 5121 by Dogmafood
    11-08-2017 10:19 PM


    Re: Texas This Time
    We need some moments of outrage.
    So what or whom do we get mad at?
    I wouldn't call it respect for the dead if there is a refusal to attempt learning and preventing the tragedy that caused the deaths.
    Everyone is reading about it. Thoughts and prayers abound. But legislation is as usual up in the air. We need consensus.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5121 by Dogmafood, posted 11-08-2017 10:19 PM Dogmafood has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5124 by NoNukes, posted 11-09-2017 12:59 PM Phat has replied
     Message 5127 by 1.61803, posted 11-09-2017 4:50 PM Phat has not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 5125 of 5179 (823363)
    11-09-2017 1:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 5124 by NoNukes
    11-09-2017 12:59 PM


    Re: Texas This Time
    One party controls the legislative agenda, and their leadership has no intention of introducing anything.
    Well, if nothing is done after a mass shooting in conservative Texas at a church and involving innocent children as victims, nothing will ever get done.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5124 by NoNukes, posted 11-09-2017 12:59 PM NoNukes has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5126 by frako, posted 11-09-2017 3:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 5130 by Dogmafood, posted 11-10-2017 9:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 5139 of 5179 (823636)
    11-14-2017 7:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 5138 by Percy
    11-14-2017 6:44 PM


    Endless Mass Shootings
    percy writes:
    The carnage won't stop until we get rid of the guns.
    Will it ever be possible to get rid of all of them?
    It's a bit like the nuclear genie. Getting rid of nuclear weapons will likely never happen. I feel that the chances are even less likely with guns.
    Of course, the argument is that if guns are controlled so that they cannot be easily purchased, the number of shootings and victims will inevitably decrease. The ball is in the public court. The debate is likely to drag on for years. The NRA is a powerful lobby that won't roll over quietly.
    And what of the black market? The old adage...that when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns...seems apt. The number of random deaths by mass shootigs would inevitably decrease, however. That much is likely.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5138 by Percy, posted 11-14-2017 6:44 PM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5140 by Percy, posted 11-15-2017 8:31 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 5141 by Diomedes, posted 11-15-2017 9:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 5147 by ringo, posted 11-15-2017 2:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

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