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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1 of 5179 (683931)
12-14-2012 3:25 PM


See any news source.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 12-14-2012 3:39 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 54 by roxrkool, posted 12-14-2012 10:47 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2012 3:24 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(6)
Message 50 of 5179 (683996)
12-14-2012 8:45 PM


The Reality
The massacres will continue as long as gun availability continues.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by xongsmith, posted 12-16-2012 11:22 AM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 74 of 5179 (684045)
12-15-2012 8:22 AM


The Reality
It's time for the gun nuts to give up their toys, time for guns to go.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 12-15-2012 5:52 PM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 90 of 5179 (684084)
12-15-2012 2:13 PM


Alabama Hospital Shooting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...unman-killed_n_2307505.html:

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- A man opened fire early Saturday at a hospital in Alabama, wounding a police officer and two employees before being shot and killed by another officer, authorities said.

--Percy


Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 91 of 5179 (684085)
12-15-2012 2:27 PM


Homicide Rate Graphs
The gun homicide rate is 10 times higher in the US than in Canada and the UK:

Gun ownership in the United States is higher than in any other country:

The more guns per capita the more homicides per capita.

Aside from target practice and hunting, most guns are never used, but of those that *are* used the most likely target is family members. The next most likely target is friends and neighbors. Probably the least likely target is a criminal. Bringing a gun into a house only increases the risk of violent death. It makes everyone nearby less safe, not more.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by RAZD, posted 12-15-2012 4:03 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1496 by RAZD, posted 01-25-2013 4:26 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 141 of 5179 (684174)
12-16-2012 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Faith
12-15-2012 5:52 PM


Re: The Reality
Faith writes:

This is not about "gun nuts," I'm no gun nut,...

I don't know if there's a formal definition, but your irrational arguments should warrant you serious consideration.

Gun deaths won't stop until there are no guns.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 12-15-2012 5:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 166 of 5179 (684207)
12-16-2012 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by xongsmith
12-16-2012 11:22 AM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Hi XongSmith,

Commenting about a couple things from this and your exchange with Tangle.

First, simple and easy are two different things. The answer to reducing gun massacres is simple: reduce the availability of guns. Achieving this will not be easy. I doubt it's even possible in today's political climate.

Second, the massacres get all the attention, but what's most important is reducing gun deaths, which are about 10 times higher in this country, approximately proportional to the greater number of guns.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by xongsmith, posted 12-16-2012 11:22 AM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 5:09 PM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 176 of 5179 (684220)
12-16-2012 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by kofh2u
12-16-2012 5:09 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Hi Kofh2u,

The chart you offered above is 20 years out of date and doesn't support your assertions anyway. Youth crime rates began a dramatic decline in the early 1990's. I told you this once before.

kofh2u writes:

These are drive by and intercity violemt crime stats...

In think you meant inner city? Not "intercity"?

Anyway, inner city homicides, indeed all homicides, would be dramatically reduced by the elimination of guns.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 5:09 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 9:54 PM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 194 of 5179 (684245)
12-16-2012 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
12-16-2012 8:36 PM


Re: the Second Amendment and the National Guard
Faith writes:

RAZD, Percy, Dr. A, Theodoric etc. You guys keep answering me as if I were making up what the founders meant.

I haven't read your founder's quotes, let alone replied to you about them.

My points have been few. The high rate of gun deaths in the US will continue for as long as we have a high level of gun ownership, a fix requires widespread gun ownership to end, and this is very unlikely in the current political climate.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Wordsmithing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 12-16-2012 8:36 PM Faith has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 236 of 5179 (684328)
12-17-2012 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Tangle
12-17-2012 3:50 AM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Tangle writes:

Your constitution can of course be changed if there is a political will in the country to do so.

Yes, exactly. Regardless of the founders' intent in the 2nd amendment, about which there is much debate, we can amend it. The founders believed many things that feel strange to modern minds, such as that some people were actually only 3/5 of a person and that women shouldn't vote, but we amended the constitution and we can do so again.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Tangle, posted 12-17-2012 3:50 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by NoNukes, posted 12-17-2012 9:52 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 237 of 5179 (684330)
12-17-2012 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by kofh2u
12-16-2012 9:54 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Hi Kofh2u,

This thread isn't about welfare or planned parenthood, but I didn't want to let another of your errors go by without comment:

kofh2u writes:

The decline was due to the rise in Abortions starting in 1972, after Roe Vs Wade.

This cut the Single Mother trend in half, so we saw a correlation with a drop in violent crime.

The number of single mothers has been increasing since the 1970s and is still increasing, yet youth crime has been declining for the past 20 years.

This thread is about gun control.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by kofh2u, posted 12-16-2012 9:54 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 280 of 5179 (684402)
12-17-2012 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by New Cat's Eye
12-17-2012 1:44 PM


Re: And so the pendulum swings again.
Catholic Scientist writes:

Secondly, unlike firearms, destructive devices are just too dangerous.

The NRA just asked me to pass this note on to you:

The NRA writes:

"Please stop, you're not helping."

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-17-2012 1:44 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-17-2012 2:16 PM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 284 of 5179 (684409)
12-17-2012 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by New Cat's Eye
12-17-2012 2:16 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

I don't give a fuck about the NRA.

Obviously.

And this just in:

The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence writes:

"Please, do go on about how firearms aren't destructive."

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-17-2012 2:16 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-17-2012 2:35 PM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 310 of 5179 (684442)
12-17-2012 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by New Cat's Eye
12-17-2012 2:35 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

"Destructive device" is a legal term.

And it even comes in human flavors with hair triggers.

Sorry I came across as being a jerk, but you seem to be missing the irony. You were asked why you don't have full-auto, and you didn't respond with comments about the serious responsibility involved but that you can't afford it and you'd "prolly be in my house and wouldn't want to wreck the place." You followed that with, "Unlike firearms, destructive devices are just too dangerous," and your blasé attitude combined with the thought of a device that could wreck your house while not being destructive was just too ironic to pass by without comment.

You followed your "destructive device" comment by exploding with "I don't give a fuck about the NRA," and sorry, I couldn't resist that either.

Anyway, carry on with this dispassionate discussion about various weaponry in a thread begun in reaction to a mass murder. Lookin' good!

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-17-2012 2:35 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-17-2012 3:42 PM Percy has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 315 of 5179 (684450)
12-17-2012 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Dr Adequate
12-17-2012 3:32 PM


Dr Adequate writes:

But that's not true, is it?

According to the "carrying concealed" guy, the mall shooter shot himself after seeing him pull his gun:

"As I was going down to pull I saw someone in the back of the charlotte move and I knew if I fired and missed I could hit them."

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

Article here: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

Never happens like it does in the movies, though, where the guy steps out from behind a support, points his weapon, and says, "Drop it." Crisis over, guy's a hero. But in the real world I guess a guy carrying concealed is enough to force perpetrators to commit suicide.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-17-2012 3:32 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Theodoric, posted 12-17-2012 4:01 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 331 by crashfrog, posted 12-17-2012 5:01 PM Percy has responded

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