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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 103 of 5179 (684102)
12-15-2012 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by shadow71
12-15-2012 4:44 PM


Re: Second Amendment

How else can we defend ourselves against the government army, navy, air force and coast guard?

The ONLY way today is that citizen must use the H-bomb.

In Foreign Affairs Magazine, an article describes this new asymmetrical device which the muslims are now using.

The bomb is strapped onto a H-uman and personally delivered to those on the other side.
All that is necessary is for the tyranny to get bad enough.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 164 of 5179 (684205)
12-16-2012 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by hooah212002
12-15-2012 7:14 PM


I deplore the idea that we are somehow a violent culture, as opposed to a violent nature. Guess what? There was plenty of fucking violence before vidya games and movies! Anyone care to remember the Roman fucking Colosseum? People act like 24 hour news programs or Grand Theft Auto V or even Call of Duty are the only reason people shoot each other up.

edit:
(my harsh language was not meant for you, Panda)

Pagan societies, those that are not Bible believing societies become violent.
This seems related to the fatherlessness that grows once the sexual mores change from the christian prudence of the Dark Ages and blossoms into what we see today.

Violence rises at double the rate of Single Mothers, which the family of the killer was in Conn.

http://www.fathers.com/content/index.php?option=com_conte...

Some fathering advocates would say that almost every social ill faced by America's
children is related to fatherlessness. Six are noted here. As supported by the data
below, children from fatherless homes are more likely to be poor, become involved
in drug and alcohol abuse, drop out of school, and suffer from health and emotional
problems. Boys are more likely to become involved in crime, and girls are more likely
to become pregnant as teens.
1. Poverty

- In 1996, young children living with unmarried mothers were five times
as likely to be poor and ten times as likely to be extremely poor.
Source: "One in Four: America's Youngest Poor." National Center for children in Poverty. 1996.

- Almost 75% of American children living in single-parent families will
experience poverty before they turn 11 years old. Only 20 percent of
children in two-parent families will do the same.
Source: National Commission on Children. Just the Facts: A Summary of Recent information
on America's Children and their Families. Washington, DC, 1993.

poverty.gif ¨ 
Source: U.S. Bureau of the Census.Statistical Abstract of the United States 1994. Washington, DC: GPO 1994.

2. Drug and Alcohol Abuse
- The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services states, "Fatherless children are at a dramatically greater risk of drug and alcohol abuse."
Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center for Health Statistics. Survey on Child Health. Washington, DC, 1993.

- Children growing up in single-parent households are at a significantly increased risk for drug abuse as teenagers.
Source: Denton, Rhonda E. and Charlene M. Kampfe. "The relationship Between Family Variables and Adolescent Substance Abuse: A literature Review." Adolescence 114 (1994): 475-495.

- Children who live apart from their fathers are 4.3 times more likely to smoke cigarettes as teenagers than children growing up with their fathers in the home.
Source: Stanton, Warren R., Tian P.S. Oci and Phil A. Silva. "Sociodemographic characteristics of Adolescent Smokers." The International Journal of the Addictions 7 (1994): 913-925.

3. Physical and Emotional Health
- Unmarried mothers are less likely to obtain prenatal care and more likely to have a low birthweight baby. Researchers find that these negative effects persist even when they take into account factors, such as parental education, that often distinguish single-parent from two-parent families.
Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Public Health Service. Center for Disease Control and Prevention. National Center for Health Statistics. Report to Congress on Out-of-Wedlock Childbearing. Hyattsville, MD (Sept. 1995): 12.

- A study on nearly 6,000 children found that children from single parent homes had more physical and mental health problems than children who lived with two married parents. Additionally, boys in single parent homes were found to have more illnesses than girls in single parent homes.
Source: Hong, Gong-Soog and Shelly L. White-Means."Do Working Mothers Have Healthy Children?" Journal of Family and Economic Issues 14 (Summer 1993): 163-186.

- Children in single-parent families are two to three times as likely as children in two-parent families to have emotional and behavioral problems.
Source: Stanton, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center for Health Statistics."National Health Interview Survey." Hyattsville, MD, 1988.

childrensbehavior.gif ¨ 
Source: Zill, Nicholas and Carol Schoenborn. Child Developmental, Learning and Emotional Problems: Health of Our Nation's Children. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center for Health Statistics. Advance Data 1990. Washington, DC: GPO, 16 Nov. 1990.

- Three out of four teenage suicides occur in households where a parent has been absent.
Source: Elshtain, Jean Bethke."Family Matters: The Plight of America's Children." The Christian Century (July 1993): 14-21.

4. Educational Achievement
- In studies involving over 25,000 children using nationally representative data sets, children who lived with only one parent had lower grade point averages, lower college aspirations, poor attendance records, and higher drop out rates than students who lived with both parents.
Source: McLanahan, Sara and Gary Sandefur. Growing up with a Single Parent: What Hurts, What Helps. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1994.

- Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.
Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center for Health Statistics. Survey on Child Health. Washington, DC; GPO, 1993.

dropoutrates.gif ¨
Source: McLanahan, Sara and Gary Sandefur. Growing up with a Single Parent: What Hurts, What Helps. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1994.

- After taking into account race, socioeconomic status, sex, age, and ability, high school students from single-parent households were 1.7 times more likely to drop out of school than were their corresponding counterparts living with both biological parents.
Source: McNeal, Ralph B. Jr."Extracurricular Activities and High School Dropouts." Sociology of Education 68(1995): 62-81.

- School children from divorced families are absent more, and more anxious, hostile, and withdrawn, and are less popular with their peers than those from intact families.
Source: One-Parent Families and Their Children: The School's Most Significant Minority. The Consortium for the Study of School Needs of Children from One-Parent Families. National Association of elementary School Principals and the Institute for Development of Educational Activities, a division of the Charles f. Kettering Foundation. Arlington, VA 1980.

5. Crime
- Children in single parent families are more likely to be in trouble with the law than their peers who grow up with two parents.
Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center for Health Statistics. National Health Interview Survey. Hyattsville, MD, 1988.

- In a study using a national probability sample of 1,636 young men and women, it was found that older boys and girls from female headed households are more likely to commit criminal acts than their peers who lived with two parents.
Source: Heimer, Karen. "Gender, Interaction, and Delinquency: Testing a Theory of Differential Social Control." Social Psychology Quarterly 59 (1996): 39-61.

juveniles.gif ¨
Source: Ryan, Gail et al."Trendis in a National Sample of Sexually Abusive Youths." Journal of the American Academy of Child Adolescent Psychiatry 35 (January 1996): 17-25.

- A study in the state of Washington using statewide data found an increased likelihood that children born out-of-wedlock would become a juvenile offender. Compared to their peers born to married parents, children born out-of-wedlock were:
1.7 times more likely to become an offender and 2.1 times more likely to become a chronic offender if male.
1.8 times more likely to become an offender and 2.8 times more likely to become a chronic offender if female.
10 times more likely to become a chronic juvenile offender if male and born to an unmarried teen mother.
Source: Conseur, Amy et al. "Maternal and Perinatal Risk Factors for Later Delinquency." Pediatrics 99 (1997): 785-790.

6. Sexual Activity and Teen Pregnancy
- Adolescent females between the ages of 15 and 19 years reared in homes without fathers are significantly more likely to engage in premarital sex than adolescent females reared in homes with both a mother and a father.
Source: Billy, John O. G., Karin L. Brewster and William R. Grady. "Contextual Effects on the Sexual Behavior of Adolescent Women." Journal of Marriage and Family 56 (1994): 381-404.

- A survey of 720 teenage girls found:
97% of the girls said that having parents they could talk to could help reduce teen pregnancy.
93% said having loving parents reduced the risk.
76% said that their fathers were very or somewhat influential on their decision to have sex.
Source: Clements, Mark. Parade. February 2, 1997.

- Children in single parent families are more likely to get pregnant as teenagers than their peers who grow up with two parents.
Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center for Health Statistics. National Health Interview Survey. Hyattsville, MD 1988.

- A white teenage girl from an advantaged background is five times more likely to become a teen mother if she grows up in a single-mother household than if she grows up in a household with both biological parents.
Source: Whitehead, Barbara Dafoe. "Facing the Challenges of Fragmented Families." The Philanthropy Roundtable 9.1 (1995): 21.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 165 of 5179 (684206)
12-16-2012 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Tangle
12-16-2012 1:51 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy

xongsmith writes:

NO IT IS NOT SIMPLE. You are talking about changing the LAW

I have asked before and not been answered; is this LAW made by a God and therefore immutable? Have I missed something?

The laws that need be changed are all those liberal legislations which have contributed to the break down of the Family Unit.

These crimes are committed by people raised infatherless homes where authority and physcial presence of a male who can enforce and lay down laws ninstructs the kids of the next generation in respect for right and wrong.

The Feminism that unleased the Sexual Revolution and commercial use of porn to sell everything from movies to fashions has been supported with Welfare Benefits for bad behaviors and No Fault divorce.

Guns wille replaced with knives or worse if the real problem is not corrected.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 172 of 5179 (684215)
12-16-2012 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Percy
12-16-2012 2:38 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy

...the massacres get all the attention, but what's most important is reducing gun deaths, which are about 10 times higher in this country, approximately proportional to the greater number of guns.

Such correlations actually misdirect attention to the Cause.

The major intercity murders just in the 10 largest cities are almost half of all kilings in America every year.
These are drive by and intercity violemt crime stats that also correlate with the Single Mother Families.

That is more evidence that broken families is the cause.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 200 of 5179 (684254)
12-16-2012 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Percy
12-16-2012 5:46 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy

Hi Kofh2u,
The chart you offered above is 20 years out of date and doesn't support your assertions anyway. Youth crime rates began a dramatic decline in the early 1990's. I told you this once before.

The decline was due to the rise in Abortions starting in 1972, after Roe Vs Wade.

This cut the Single Mother trend in half, so we saw a correlation with a drop in violent crime.

Nevertheless, the present 1.5 million illegitimate babies born every year since 1970 is equal to the 1.2 million abortions now fighting crime for America.

As William Bennet said on Radio, at risk of getting fired," to kill the remaining 1.5 million bastards, as they were once called, is NOT an acceptable solution."

But between U and me, the Liberals and Obama are using Planned UNparenthood to do just that..


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 205 of 5179 (684259)
12-16-2012 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by NoNukes
12-16-2012 8:52 PM


Re: Second Amendment

Quite frankly, Dr. Adequate's point is nothing more than common sense. Not surprisingly, you reject the point.

LOL
Common sense would dictate that wise citizens better arm themselves against the growing population of Barbarians within, as the inner cities and the population of kids raised by unwed mothers grows and gets even more demanding.

And, as these barbarians within the gates threaten the still healthy citizens within, they siphon off the tax money needed for a military to stand off the growing greedily patriarchs who see the weakness of a decadent America.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 277 of 5179 (684392)
12-17-2012 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Theodoric
12-17-2012 11:28 AM


Re: the Second Amendment and the National Guard - NOT the military

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

The facts are that 70% of all violent crimes are caused by people raised by Single Mothers.

We all KNOW this intuitively, because we fear the inner cities where America corrals these Welfare Women and raise their kids together so they all fail school and gang together in a fatherless community.

A second fact is that single fire hand guns kill about 4000 young inner city people every year, which is half of all murders in America.

While people like those posting here avoid these truths and focus on arguments about blaming the gun, instead of the Culture in America, the blood continues to flow.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 416 of 5179 (684664)
12-18-2012 11:44 AM


Violent crime/murder
The crime rate in America is almost nil except for inner city America where the murders take place and the WELFARE SYSTEM incubates fatherless kids whio never recognize authority figures thereafter.

Go figure.
We will all NEED guns at some point as The Wild West returns with a vengence of 30 million "cowboys" filling the streets we once walk our dogs on with safety and pleasure.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 518 of 5179 (684796)
12-18-2012 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Rahvin
12-18-2012 11:52 AM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down

And the murder rate in the US is actually four times that of the UK.

Its almost ALL urban, city crime in America, where we house the Welfare recipients who raise fatherless kids responsible for 70% of all violent crime.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 520 of 5179 (684800)
12-18-2012 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 4:10 PM


Re: And so the pendulum swings again.

Notice the sudden dip when Abortions and Planned Parenthood focused on eliminating the Single Mothers by killing off half the annual illegitimate pregnacies starting just 10-15 years BEFORE the crime rates dropped:

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reduce first image size.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 545 of 5179 (684873)
12-19-2012 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by Tangle
12-18-2012 5:37 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down

I'm extremely sceptical about all claims made that contradict personal experience, but I am totally open to having my mind changed by the facts.

EVERYBODY says that.

But then they will argue that Statisics lie, or that Correlaton isn't Causation.
These replies are a mere come-back, ignoring their own loss for any evidence against that correlation/causation, in the particular case,
They pretend to blindnessm failing to "see" the correlation actually confirms the Cause/Effect relationship for which the Stats were supplied.

For most people, they believe as long as they have any kind of retort to the evidence, they can maintain their original position, and avoid what they take as embarrassment for nothing being on the right side of the Truth, (i.e.; hate to admit they were wrong).

Like, I presented Stats that Single Mothers raise violent kids who are those responsible for 70% of the murders by guns, not the guns.

Percy says that doesn't follow because crime, in general, is down lower than in 1970-1990.

Notice that this has no relationship to the Statistics.

Even with crime down, 70% of the violent crime is caused by people who were raised without a father living with the family, (or worse, there was a divorce and a step father).
When I show that lower crime is ALSO correlated with lower numbers of Single Mothers and fewer illegitimate birth when Legal Abortion and Planned Parenthood started to kill off half the fatherless criminals, (10-15 years BEFORE the crime rate dropped), Percy does not change his opinion that he is right, nor support the truth of what I say about Guns don't kill, fatherless kids do.

Fewer fatherless kids were born once abortion was legal, starting in 1972, with Roe VS Wade.
In FACT, exactly half the 3 million illegitimate pregnacies were terminated before birth, and the violent crime dropped in half, also, starting 10-15 years hence, when there would have been twice the fatrherless teenagers other wise.

Jesus said he is The Truth and that is he way we need go.
The message was so imoortant, because as youy see here, peple are offended when wrong, and indirecly hate the Truth, necause it is an embarrassment to them.
This why America needs Jesus, i.e.; The Truth.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 546 of 5179 (684874)
12-19-2012 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 543 by hooah212002
12-18-2012 11:24 PM


Re: Removal of Constitutional rights

That's why we need guns. Oh, and to protect ourselves from the home invasion that hasn't happened and will likely never happen because I live in a rich white neighborhood.

... so, then you are well aware that the crime is in poor inner city neighborhood where fatherless boys are raised by Single Mothers who can not represent that authority figure which is so necessary to instilling respect for rules in gnral.

Why are you Off Topic about the Constitution, yet ignoring these Facts which I present that show "Guns don't kill, fatherless boys do," sooner or later?????


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 548 of 5179 (684883)
12-19-2012 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 547 by saab93f
12-19-2012 7:47 AM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down

You´ve already been replied by others. If speed limits are introduced, it is likely that traffic offences will increase. That is exactly what happened in the UK - things that previously were not crime became such. Violent crime and especially gun-related deaths decreased OTOH significantly. That is what matters the most.

Same thing happened in NYC whne the police emphaxied authroity by arresting people for what was even disorderly conduct and petty stuff.

Crime fell to the point that NYC was safe when it had been the crime capital of the USA prviously.

What we saw happen was that the poiceman confronted the wise guys, the young people raised fatherless in Single Mother Families.
Before they were encouraged to think they could get away without retraints, they meet the "man."


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 551 of 5179 (684905)
12-19-2012 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 550 by Tangle
12-19-2012 8:19 AM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down

kofh2u writes:
EVERYBODY says that.

Everybody has beliefs that they have learned from their own experience and it's quite hard to shift them - and so it should be. If it was different, people would be in a daze of indecision about the simplest of things.

One way that people's minds are changed is by hearing people with real knowledge speak rationally about it. There are some people here that have changed my mind - or at least made me think in a different way about things. They are the people that Ive learned to trust and respect through their arguments over time.

Sadly you're not amongst them because you have consistently posted the most ludicrous, nonsensical, un-evidenced bollox I've heard for a very long time.

But then they will argue that Statisics lie, or that Correlaton isn't Causation.

They will argue that quite rightly - because sadly statistics can, and often are, used to lie and correlation most definitely is not causation. As you are very well aware, being a practitioner of the bent art.

1) Silly to say the same thing about you of course, ...

2) But I do not remember you actually responding directly to anything which you now refer to simply as "the most ludicrous, nonsensical, un-evidenced bollox you've heard for a very long time."

Do you hav an example?

3) I suspect you are correct, in that it has been a long time that you have been seeped in fallacies and misinterprations of the scripture and even sociological nonsense concerning the gun issues in America.

That is exactly why you find it impossible to even entertain ideas new to you.

They strike at the very core of your fantasy constructs that you have become so secure in, fearing a loss into "a daze of indecision about the simplest of things."

4) But that is EXACTLY the meaning of Born Again, when you SEE the light of the truth, and, like St Paul, are blinded and lost at first, then recovered anew.

5) Facts can be replaced by opinion and argument using the rule that we can dismiss evidence that correlates based upon the easy out of reponding that there are cases where Cause is not related to the correlation.

6) What I have presented about Single Mothers, the violence of the kids they raise, and the social problems of Fatherlessness is not only correlated facts but widely accepted causation today.

Here are some sources that an open minded person would examine first before dismissing the correlation:

Statistics on Fatherlessness
CHILDREN NEED BOTH PARENTS

It’s a Fact
Here’s why:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census).

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.

85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes.
(Source: Center for Disease Control).

80% of rapist motivated by displaced anger come from fatherless homes. (Source:
Criminal Justice and Behavior, Vol. 14, pp. 403-26).

71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. (Source: National Principals Assoc. Report on the State of High Schools).

85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. (Source: Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. Of Corrections, 1992).

These statistics translate to mean that children from fatherless homes are:

5 times more likely to commit suicide
32 times more likely to run away
20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
14 times more likely to commit rape
9 times more likely to drop out of high school
20 times more likely to end up in prison

Children from fatherless homes are*:

Children from "fatherless families of single mother" homes are*:

• 15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
• 4.6 times more likely to commit suicide
• 6.6 times more likely to become teenaged mothers
• 24.3 times more likely to run away
• 15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
• 6.3 times more likely to be in a state-operated institutions
• 10.8 times more likely to commit rape
• 6.6 times more likely to drop out of school
• 15.3 times more likely to end up in prison while a teenage
• 73% of adolescent murderers come from mother only homes
• 6.3 times more likely to be in state operated institutions

Daughters who live in mother only homes are 92% more likely to divorce.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2078 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 552 of 5179 (684906)
12-19-2012 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 549 by Faith
12-19-2012 8:16 AM


Re: Lose Your Gun rights, Expect Loss of all Your Other Freedoms

The reality is that law-abiding gun-owning citizens have been deprived of their means of self-defense while crime has risen and made them and everybody else victims of criminals.

It could be, very likely could be, that forces of tyranny against the entire nations of the UK and Australia are just waiting in the wings to bring you all into bondage, tyrannies that few have the sense to anticipate these days, that laws allowing citizen possession of guns are meant to restrain. Too late now. You're all sitting ducks now.

It could happen very soon in the US as well, certainly looks like the Left is building up to that and soon the Second Amendment will be history. Sad to see the west go down like this but we've seen it coming for years, at least Christian have, who are the only ones who have any idea WHY all this is happening.

EXACTLY...

Jerry BVentura, the ex-governor, i=has been investigting the Homeland Security agendas which included buy 1 billion bullets under s federal contract.
he wondered why?
That is enough ammo to kill every American 3X, and to wipe out all Islam.

They also have built fenced "camps": that have space provided for massive housing of thousands and thosands of people behind double barb wired fences with search lights place around them.

What is THAT all about?

Then, at some facilities, Ventura documents thousands of plastic coffins stack high in thousands of piles .

?

Below is the Video that was stopped from airing on TV:

USA – FEMA Camps – Police State – PART 1 of 3 ( Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura )
Uploaded by gfde08

PLAYLIST PART 1+2+3 https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8674800A66E3234B

Former Gov. Jesse Ventura and his crew at Conspiracy Theory have blown the FEMA camp issue wide open in a truly groundbreaking episode from the program's second season on TruTV. The "Police State" episode proves once and for all that the feds have trained to take on American citizens, planned for riots and disasters and made preparations to maintain order at any cost.

This episode of Conspiracy Theory is the largest and most in-depth investigation into FEMA camps to date– and it is scheduled to air on television. Radio host and filmmaker Alex Jones returns to the series yet again, as the team takes you to confirmed on-the-ground facilities, confronts the legislators who authorized FEMA camps and breaks down the full-scale technologically-integrated police state that includes Fusion Centers, FEMA, the Department of Homeland Security and more.

At one of many real and verified FEMA locations, Jesse Ventura and Alex Jones approach a "Residential Center" run by Homeland Security in central Texas where they find locked doors, double-fences and escape warnings around the entire perimeter. Further inside the facility, they witness a playground complex, swings and slides for children. The crew walks up to the front door and attempts to get some answers. But the officials refuse to either confirm or deny the facility's purpose, including whether or not American citizens are being held inside. However, our past investigations into this facility reveal that it has confined both children and adults, including immigrants, refugee seekers and American citizens.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by Faith, posted 12-19-2012 8:16 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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