Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 76 (9011 total)
58 online now:
dwise1, frako, jar, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), Tangle (6 members, 52 visitors)
Newest Member: Burrawang
Upcoming Birthdays: Coragyps
Happy Birthday: DrJones*
Post Volume: Total: 881,649 Year: 13,397/23,288 Month: 327/795 Week: 28/95 Day: 9/19 Hour: 0/0


EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

Summations Only

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 1856 of 5179 (691314)
02-22-2013 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1836 by AZPaul3
02-21-2013 7:03 AM


Re: Self-defence
AZPaul3 writes:

As far as my "cheer," it was a reaction to your "jeer." I don't do jeers and where I think appropriate I try to counterbalance those that do.

Ditto. I'm especially irked when someone jeers a civil, thoughtful post merely because they disagree.

Sometimes someone clearly goes into a frenzy of jeer clicks, the jeers appearing rapidly, the jeered posts barely skimmed if read at all. It once made me think about those 1950s rats pushing buttons wired into their brains. The rats waste away, preferring the pleasure spikes to sustenance; it is more pleasurable (and easier) to jeer and sneer than to formulate a civil, thoughtful reply while expressing strong disagreement, and there is no sustenance in it for the mind.

As to Iran and North Korea (just to add a dash of on-topic): They clearly recognized that the U.S. never risks intervention in a nuclear-armed state. Indeed, the world has learned that lesson, and American military adventurism undoubtedly promotes nuclear proliferation.

As you say, every nation has every right, or at least rights as great as ours, to self-defense. If I governed a nation looked upon unfavorably by the U.S. in any way, I would make nuclear arms a top priority.

But states like North Korea and Iran, I fear, are flies in the Mutually Assured Destruction ointment: it works great until some of the MAD players really are.

Oops. I just meant to applaud your jeer-free and jeer-canceling policies.

Cheers!


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1836 by AZPaul3, posted 02-21-2013 7:03 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1857 by Faith, posted 02-22-2013 7:35 AM Omnivorous has responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 1862 of 5179 (691473)
02-22-2013 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1857 by Faith
02-22-2013 7:35 AM


Re: cheers and jeers
Faith writes:

Way the game is played here, too bad but way it goes.

Their is a large contingent of non-jeer and low-jeer posters here: call it the silent majority.

Everyone plays their own game.

So if "the way the game is played" is how it has to be for you, then that is the game you choose to play.

Didn't your mother ever ask you, "Well, would you jump off a cliff just because everyone else did? "


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1857 by Faith, posted 02-22-2013 7:35 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1865 by Faith, posted 02-22-2013 5:35 PM Omnivorous has responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 1866 of 5179 (691518)
02-22-2013 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1865 by Faith
02-22-2013 5:35 PM


Re: cheers and jeers
Faith writes:

Yes I may take it out on others who don't play that game.

I truly didn't mean to single you out.

Nonetheless, I cheer your honesty. I've done the same.

Sorry to drag everyone off-topic: back to ~lurking.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1865 by Faith, posted 02-22-2013 5:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 1867 of 5179 (691519)
02-22-2013 6:11 PM


J onifre
You so funny punk because yo mama was so fat, when she sat around the house, she sat AROUND the house.

Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Replies to this message:
 Message 1868 by Omnivorous, posted 02-22-2013 6:13 PM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 1868 of 5179 (691520)
02-22-2013 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1867 by Omnivorous
02-22-2013 6:11 PM


Re: J onifre
And your daddy was so ugly, your grandpa told your mama, "Honey, would you just f*** that boy so he'll take his ugly ass outta my house!?"

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1867 by Omnivorous, posted 02-22-2013 6:11 PM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(3)
Message 1959 of 5179 (692864)
03-08-2013 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1958 by GDR
03-08-2013 2:38 AM


Re: Militias could always be called to duty by the highest authority...
GDR writes:

I'm sure you read your Bible but do you pay any attention to what Jesus actually says?

They know Jesus meant well, but they prefer to do what they think Jesus would do if he were in possession of all the facts.

I call these folks "Old Testament Christians"--Prosperity Christians, Death Penalty Christians, etc.

What Jesus required is hard...too hard. It's easier to stick with an eye for an eye, and to keep throwing stones


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1958 by GDR, posted 03-08-2013 2:38 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1960 by GDR, posted 03-08-2013 10:00 AM Omnivorous has responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 1971 of 5179 (692911)
03-08-2013 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1960 by GDR
03-08-2013 10:00 AM


Re: Militias could always be called to duty by the highest authority...
GDR writes:

I have to wonder what kind of Christianity doesn't at least make an attempt to follow Christ. It seems that they simply make Him up in their own image which involves a mixture of the Bible, their nationalism, their politics and their sense of wanting to belong to an identifiable group.

Bingo.

I grew up in a Christian house. When I was a child, I shrank from the Old-blood-and-guts Testament, but was stunned by the New Testament, thinking, "This is what a true God would say we should do."

I lifted my eyes from the Bible and couldn't find a single Christian in my world who genuinely tried to walk that talk.

I never looked back. But I still esteem the moral and ethical brilliance, and the kindness and compassion, that Jesus taught.

ICANT would scope Jesus as a dirty hippie commie (or an illegal) from 1000 meters and take him out with one shot.

Then he'd go to church.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1960 by GDR, posted 03-08-2013 10:00 AM GDR has not yet responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(5)
Message 2004 of 5179 (693032)
03-09-2013 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1996 by Jon
03-09-2013 5:05 PM


Au contraire, mon ami
Jon writes:

Interestingly, car insurance doesn't make anyone safer.

Except, of course, it does.

Drive your car recklessly, and you will accumulate a record that drives your insurance rates to stratospheric levels. Many a foot has eased off their pedals after their owners' insurance rates went sky high.

Financial penalties are the purest form of 21st century negative reinforcement. As I once observed to a friend, if cars were gods, we'd see the tens of thousands of lives we sacrificed to them every year more clearly, and we'd all be pedestrian Satanic rebels.

So it is with guns. If we had to line up all the men, women and children killed by guns every year as we sustain our Wild West gun culture, and had to shoot them in the head en masse in public ceremony, gun control laws would pass tomorrow.

You are, of course, free to disagree. But don't do it with blinders on.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1996 by Jon, posted 03-09-2013 5:05 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2005 by Jon, posted 03-10-2013 12:34 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 2030 of 5179 (693201)
03-12-2013 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2013 by NoNukes
03-11-2013 3:09 PM


Re: Au contraire, mon ami
NoNukes writes:

Omnivorous writes:

stratospheric levels. Many a foot has eased off their pedals after their owners' insurance rates went sky high.


Jon writes:

But that's not car insurance; that's the fear of car insurance.

Quite a different thing.

That's not fear of car insurance. That's the actual reality that you can no longer afford to continue a pattern of behavior because your car insurance is too costly.

Of course; the fear of guns will do just that: get you knee-jerk, freedom-quenching legislation passed in the blink of an eye.

I note that slowing down and driving carefully would not be a knee jerk response, but is actually the rational thing to do.

Thanks for making that reply, NoNukes.

I confess I found Jon's reply to my post such a stinking, reeking turd of intellectual dishonesty that I lost my appetite for the discussion.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2013 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2013 3:09 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 2367 of 5179 (719849)
02-18-2014 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2356 by RAZD
02-18-2014 2:59 PM


Re: Prediction
RAZD writes:

Prediction: within 2 years a gun in a school ostensibly to prevent or reduce school shootings ... will be used in a school shooting or accidental death.

Sooner.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2356 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 2:59 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2374 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 7:00 PM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 3479 of 5179 (759781)
06-15-2015 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 3473 by Dr Adequate
06-14-2015 10:43 PM


Re: Another one bites the dust.
Dr A writes:

Jon writes:

My bad.

I thought you wanted an adult conversation.

In your own time.

Jon writes:

You rested his case.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3473 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-14-2015 10:43 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(3)
Message 3676 of 5179 (760532)
06-22-2015 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3673 by marc9000
06-22-2015 7:37 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
quote:
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


Is it your contention that in these cases, 13 million, 20 million, and 100,000 guns, respectively, were seized by those governments?

In other words, do you claim that these victims were previously armed? If not, you are just pairing arbitrary dates with arbitrary numbers--you've established no connection.

The numbers may be "basically true"--it was a bloody century, full of bombs and guns--but your post hoc propter hoc argument is basically crap.

Also, to most Americans, gun control means background checks and limits on weapons with mass assault capabilities; you cite histories that involved absolute bans on civilian ownership. I don't believe any of those populations were armed to any significant degree.

Do you have any arguments that do not rely on logical fallacies and equivocation?


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3673 by marc9000, posted 06-22-2015 7:37 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3678 by PaulK, posted 06-23-2015 2:06 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3679 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2015 3:31 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3692 by marc9000, posted 06-23-2015 8:37 PM Omnivorous has responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 3697 of 5179 (760615)
06-23-2015 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 3692 by marc9000
06-23-2015 8:37 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
marc9000 writes:

you cite histories that involved absolute bans on civilian ownership. I don't believe any of those populations were armed to any significant degree.

And you're telling me you don't think that's the goal of the Democrat party today?

I think a world not armed to any significant degree is the goal of every sane human being.

As to the gun control history, it remains a polemic, a screed, bankrupt in logic and slipshod in fact.

I'd warrant the person who wrote it knows that about it and doesn't care, because it's merely a weapon of political and cultural war. The "technical truth" is less important than the "larger truth" of its partisanship.

The bitter divorce between the right in America and evidence-based policies is the great political tragedy of our time.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3692 by marc9000, posted 06-23-2015 8:37 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 3699 of 5179 (760618)
06-23-2015 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3695 by marc9000
06-23-2015 9:08 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
mar9000 writes:

They can make for themselves a determination of just what the National Guard is trying to do, "restore order", or just follow orders from self serving politicians and bureaucrats.

If citizens disagree about the National Guard, do they fight it out in factions, first, then address the Guard?

Can I make this determination whenever I encounter an armed agent of the state? You know, in a Founding Fathers-cheering-me- on kinda way?

This getting a lot of people killed for freedom with guns is kinda fractally, works on all scales...


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3695 by marc9000, posted 06-23-2015 9:08 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 3811
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 3726 of 5179 (760702)
06-24-2015 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3725 by vimesey
06-24-2015 6:32 PM


Re: Bizarro is in the minds of the gun control people
vimesey writes:

Call me a mad fool, but the data would strongly indicate that similar results will occur if you start making churches (of all fucking places) an appropriate environment in which to encourage guns.

I could accept concealed carry nationwide if it started in court rooms, state legislatures, governors' offices and Congress--say a six month trial. That should do.

No legislator should vote for guns on campuses and in churches (or, say, bars) if they're uncomfortable with me packing heat in the visitors gallery.

WWJC?

I have to think an Uzi, a tasteful nod to parentage and an always-appropriate classic for a Muscular Christ. He drives a sharp car and expects his flock to both prosper and deliver, the poor and the rich man alike tidily set aside, love and charity reserved for your own kind. With that nice tan you know a gold chain would really pop, and he'd look just like his downtown brother.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3725 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2015 6:32 PM vimesey has not yet responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020