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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(2)
Message 1424 of 5179 (688626)
01-24-2013 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1409 by Heathen
01-23-2013 2:05 AM


Re: God's judgments on America, gun control a sign
Hi Heathen,

Heathen writes:

So you don't entertain that the constitution maybe, just maybe out of date and incorrect on this issue? on any issues?

What would make the constitution out of date concerning the second amendment?

It can be changed by an amendment ratified by 39 States.

Hethen writes:

Do you see the constitution as infallible? unchanging? inerrant truth?

Whether the constitution is infallible or not makes no difference it is the law of the land.

Heathen writes:

unchanging?

The constitution is unchanging.

But the constitution can be changed by amendments ratified by 3/4's of the States.

The Supreme Court has no authority to change the constitution. Their job is to make sure every law passed by congress conforms to the constitution.

Just for a point of information 3/4's of the States can disolve the Federal government and establish a new government.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1409 by Heathen, posted 01-23-2013 2:05 AM Heathen has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1425 by Faith, posted 01-24-2013 12:26 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 1429 by Heathen, posted 01-24-2013 1:51 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(2)
Message 1427 of 5179 (688635)
01-24-2013 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1425 by Faith
01-24-2013 12:26 AM


Re: God's judgments on America, gun control a sign
5Hi Faith,

2/3rds of the States can call a constitutional convention.

It takes 3/4's of the states to ratify an amendment to the constitution.

So, 3/4's of the States could call a constitutional convention and offer an amendment to repeal all references to the congress.

They could offer an amendment to repeal all references to the Judicial branch.

They could offer an amendment to repeal all references to the executive branch.

The 39 States could then ratify all three amendments and the Federal government would not exist.

That would make a mess wouldn't it?

They could then propose and ratify amendments to set up a similar system as we have today but limit the powers each branch had specifying what the Federal government was to do and what it could not do.

That is the way it was until power hungry people began to maneuver things around the constitution by giving themselves power the constitution did not give them.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1425 by Faith, posted 01-24-2013 12:26 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1428 by xongsmith, posted 01-24-2013 1:45 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(2)
Message 1433 of 5179 (688669)
01-24-2013 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1428 by xongsmith
01-24-2013 1:45 AM


Re: God's judgments on America, gun control a sign
Hi xong,

xongsmith writes:

Has anyone else here looked at nomic?

Cool game isn't it.

The problem is our politicians have been playing this game for a very long time.

Such as the president making laws by executive orders, the Supreme court making laws by ruling that the penalty congress voted for in the health care bill was a tax instead of sending it back to the congress to fix. The congress changing the rules and letting the president become a dictator. The congress, president, and Supreme Court changing the rules and usurping the authority of the States.

So it is time the States got in the game and reverted the rules back to the original rules. Or to change all the rules by making a new agreement between the States.

The Federal government was created by the States and made provisions to reserve to themselves the means of controling the entity that it had created.

That is the reason that 39 States could dissolve the rules and start all over. Will they is the question? I doubt it as there are not enough people with enough backbone that has not drank the cool aid.

And because of that the once great nation known as the United States of America will be a bankrupt country. The programs that are being pushed at the present ruined many a country.

But to be able to continue on the course of tax and spend it is necessary that the people be relieved of their weapons with which they can protect and feed themselves with.

Vladimir Putin in 2008 stated: “In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state role absolute… In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly.”

Russia today has a 13% flat tax and is growing. Estonia has the highest flat tax rate (21%) of any of the Russian block countries.

By the way, with high income taxes and value added taxes (a national sales tax), why are Greece and Spain both bankrupt and insolvent?

We are presently pushing for the same things that caused their problems.

Why does our politicians think we can do the same things and come out with a different result?

Raul Castro, is a proud communist. Yet Cuba recently passed the most sweeping reforms in its history. Castro is slashing more than 1 million government jobs, cutting entitlements, encouraging more private sector entrepreneurship, giving more power to private companies and reducing state spending.

Seems like Raul has woke up to the fact he can't spend more than the country has coming in. Their tourist trade had been decimated by the problems in Greece, Spain, and other european countries that have been supplying the majority of the country's income in the last couple of decades.

So it is time for the American people to rise up and take their country back from the politicans and special intrest groups that control those politicians.

It can be done but must be done at the state level.

You say why can't we just vote them out and send new people to Washington to do our bidding. That will not work as there is a monster that has been created that is devouring our country. We have to destroy the monster of greed and absolute power that is runnig Washington at present.

That monster now wants our guns so it can control us without resistence.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1428 by xongsmith, posted 01-24-2013 1:45 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(2)
Message 1434 of 5179 (688672)
01-24-2013 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1432 by GDR
01-24-2013 11:25 AM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi GDR,

GDR writes:

Well how is it working so far? In our discussion we have already clearly shown that there are more lives lost due to the ready access to guns than have ever been saved by armed citizen’s protecting themselves. I challenged you to find in total the number of people saved from having guns as compared to the one recent incident in Connecticut where 27 lives were lost due to the guns being kept in the home of one highly disturbed youth. You didn’t and couldn’t respond.

A study was done in the run up to the first assault rifle ban.

quote:
There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.
.
Located Here. This study was last updated 7/18/2010.

The lowest survey showed 800,000 people used a gun in self defence in a year to protect themselves, their family or another individual.

quote:
Forty-six-year-old Joyce Cordoba stood behind the deli counter while working at a Wal-Mart in Albuquerque, N.M. Suddenly, her ex-husband – against whom Ms. Cordoba had a restraining order – showed up, jumped over the deli counter, and began stabbing Ms. Cordoba. Due Moore, a 72-year-old Wal-Mart customer, witnessed the violent attack. Moore, legally permitted to carry a concealed weapon, pulled out his gun, and shot and killed the ex-husband. Ms. Cordoba survived the brutal attack and is recovering from her wounds.

This raises a question. How often do Americans use guns for defensive purposes? We know that in 2003, 12,548 people died through non-suicide gun violence, including homicides, accidents and cases of undetermined intent.

UCLA professor emeritus James Q. Wilson, a respected expert on crime, police practices and guns, says, “We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond a hundred thousand uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2-and-a-half or 3 million. We don’t know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it’s not a trivial number.”


Source

quote:
Former Manhattan Assistant District Attorney David P. Koppel studied gun control for the Cato Institute. Citing a 1979-1985 study by the National Crime Victimization Survey, Koppel found: "When a robbery victim does not defend himself, the robber succeeds 88 percent of the time, and the victim is injured 25 percent of the time. When a victim resists with a gun, the robbery success rate falls to 30 percent, and the victim injury rate falls to 17 percent. No other response to a robbery – from drawing a knife to shouting for help to fleeing – produces such low rates of victim injury and robbery success."

Source

That should refute your assertion you made to Faith.

You could have googled "how many times guns are used in self defense" and debunked your own myth.

GDR writes:

It is not an emotion driven argument against guns. It is simply the factual argument that the proliferation of guns causes far more deaths, whether it be at the hands of crazed individuals such as in Connecticut, or as a result of well meaning people like yourself maintaining these weapons in the home.

Present your facts instead of your assertions.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1432 by GDR, posted 01-24-2013 11:25 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1436 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 1:26 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 1439 by Straggler, posted 01-24-2013 1:58 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 1440 by GDR, posted 01-24-2013 2:21 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(2)
Message 1435 of 5179 (688673)
01-24-2013 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1429 by Heathen
01-24-2013 1:51 AM


Re: God's judgments on America, gun control a sign
Hi Heathen,

Heathen writes:

er... right...

But it can not be changed by presidential executive order.

It can not be changed by congress passing a law signed by the president.

It can not be changed by a Supreme Court ruling.

It can not be changed by popular vote.

The Constitution can be changed by 39 States amending the Constitution.

Until it is changed by the States it is the law of the land regardless of what you think of it.

The second amendment forbids the government (shall not) from infringing up the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.

It does not say they shall not be infringed, 'except the government can limit what type of gun they may possess or how large their magazines can be or how many bullets they can have in their possession'.

If those who want to infringe my rights to possess and bear Arms want to do so they must get 39 States to repeal the second amendment.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1429 by Heathen, posted 01-24-2013 1:51 AM Heathen has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1437 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 1:32 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(2)
Message 1438 of 5179 (688676)
01-24-2013 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1437 by Percy
01-24-2013 1:32 PM


Re: God's judgments on America, gun control a sign
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

You're just repeating your position while ignoring the rebuttals. Your message needed more on the end, beginning with, "Now I know it's been argued..."

The way the Constitution can be changed is not an argument. It is spelled out in the Constitution precisely how it can be changed.

I was not arguing anything.

I was replying to the statement "er... right...". Which was concerning how the constitution could be changed.

I mearly explained how the Constitution could be changed and how the second amendment could be changed.

If you disagree with the way I said the constitution could be changed please present your argumentation.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1437 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 1:32 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1443 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 3:30 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 1485 by Heathen, posted 01-25-2013 4:03 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1442 of 5179 (688683)
01-24-2013 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1436 by Percy
01-24-2013 1:26 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

The goal isn't the thwarting of crime but the reduction of gun deaths.

I agree that reducing deaths is the main thing. That is why I support the second amendment other than it being the law of the land.

How many of the times a gun was used to foil a criminal in self defense would the people have died had they not used a gun in their self defense?

Do you have any numbers?

I can find numerous occasions where an intruder was killed in self defense.

The lie that is being put forth is that assault rifles are the bad weapons and need to be banned.

In 2010 there was 358 murders with all kinds of rifles.

quote:
While anti-gun advocates argue that banning semi-automatic rifles, like the popular AR-15, will help decrease shooting deaths in the U.S., FBI data suggests that the average American is more likely to be killed by “hands, fists” or “feet” than a rifle. The anti-gun crowd has intensified its calls for a federal assault weapons ban following the tragedy in Newtown, Conn. last week.

Source

I find 1 report that says 851 funerals were the result of accidental death by gun in 2011(I am assuming 2011 as the article does not specify). It does not give a breakdown of what kind of gun was involved. Source

I have no knowledge of the reliability of the source. It could be perfect or less than perfect.

But anyone that is involved in an accidental death by gun should not have a gun in their posession.

I raised 2 boys and had loaded guns in the house all the time. There was no trigger locks or gun safes. The shotguns and rifles were in a gun rack on the wall 5' off the floor. My boys knew what a gun could do from the time they were able to walk. They were present at hog killings. By the time they were able to hold a gun and shoot it they were taught the proper way to handle a gun. My oldest son killed his first deer when he was nine years old. But when my grandkids came along I placed the weapons in places they could not get to them as they had never been taught to respect a gun or authority.

A gun in the hands of a trained person is a tool. In the hands of an untrained person it becomes a toy like the one they see on TV where people get shot and get up, or they see them in the next movie. They play computer games where when they are shot and killed they get a new life and go again. So there is no bad results until they point a real loaded gun with a bullet in the chamber at someone and pulls the trigger. Then and only then do they respect what a gun can do.

So if you really want to save lives it can be done by education. It will never be done by banning weapons. Because if someone wants to kill someone they will find a way whether they have access to a gun or not. If you don't believe so just check out the FBI information found Here

Percy writes:

If we actually did live in so dangerous a country that there was a significant risk of being murdered just in the course of daily life then carrying a gun for self-defense would make sense

In 2011 eleven people were murdered every two days in the US.

You may not think that is very many but I do.

Do you want to take the right of those eleven people to have a gun to protect themselves with away from them? Had they had a gun they may be alive today.

How about the Georgia mom and her two children this month who where hiding in a crawl space and an intruder broke into the house and found the place they were hiding. She shot him 5 times and he still got out of the house but was captured shortly.

The police and her husband was on the way but would have been too late had she not had the revolver. The husband was gun savy and had only 5 bullets in the revolver so the hammer was on a empty chamber. But I bet you by now there is a Glock with a 10 round clip or equivelant available for defense in the home.

Would you rather that she did not have the revolver in the home?

I would rather that she have a AR15 or AK47 with a 30 round magazine and know how to use it. But thats just me.

Percy writes:

Because the risk of being murdered is so incredibly low, just owning a gun increases, not decreases, the risk of gun death. As incredibly low the probability that one will make one's brother-in-law so angry that he'll go home and get his gun, or that one's retired father shoots a suspected burglar who is actually just the neighbor walking his dog in the alley, or that a boyfriend gets drunk and shoots a girlfriend, or that one gets depressed and takes one's own life, they're all still more likely than getting murdered just going about your daily business.

I would like to see you convince the families of the 11 people who are murdered every two days that you are correct.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1436 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 1:26 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1445 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 3:46 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1446 of 5179 (688689)
01-24-2013 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1440 by GDR
01-24-2013 2:21 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi GDR,

GDR writes:

The statistics that you are shown here are misleading

That was the reason I took the smallest number.

But if you don't think people are saved by having a gun available to protect themself I will present a few.

Here
Here
Here
Here

But the second amendment was not placed in the constitution to grant a right to a citizen to possess a gun to hunt with, target practice with, or just to protect them from a crook. It was place there to insure that the Federal government could not infringe the right (that the people already possesed) of the people to possess and bear Arms. The fear was that the Federal government through a standing army could take over the country and install a dictatorship or a kingship. If such were to take place I hope we have enough active military men that believe in the constitution and will disobey to follow orders to fire on the citizens of the country and instead choose to obey their oath to protect the Constitution of the United States and use all means at their disposal to make sure such an event would not take place.

GDR writes:

I will say this though. Our Prime Minister is a big hockey fan and we often see him sitting along with his kids in the stands at hockey games. Do you see your President being able to do that? I humbly suggest that readily available guns are one of the reasons for that.

That is great.

But if you take the makeup of the citizens of Canada and the citizens of the US you will find that our homicide rate and that of Canada is not very different.
Check Here

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1440 by GDR, posted 01-24-2013 2:21 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1465 by GDR, posted 01-24-2013 7:09 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1454 of 5179 (688699)
01-24-2013 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1445 by Percy
01-24-2013 3:46 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

First, one number you mention a couple times is wrong,

So where does that help you. Now you have 35 families to convince that you are correct.

You are correct I should have used 12,996 for homicides in 2010.

That come out to 35 each day. My bad.

Or the 8,775 murders committed with firearms which would be 24 per day.

Or the 6,009 murdered with hand guns which would be 16 per day.

Or the 358 murdered with all rifles which would be .98 per day.

Or the 1,704 murdered with knives or cutting instruments which would be 4.6 per day.

Or the 540 murdered with blunt instruments (clubs, hammers, etc), which would be 1.47 per day.

Or the 745 murdered with personal weapons (hands, fist, feet etc) which would be 2.04 per day

If you notice the lowest number is the rifle of which the assault rifle is a part. Which is what everyone is saying to ban. Shuks they would only use a shotgun or a handgun.

Percy writes:

The argument that guns prevent murders is silly. It isn't that they can't - it's that the confluence of circumstances necessary for an armed but otherwise unprepared person thwarting someone intent on murdering them is incredibly unlikely.

What is silly about it?

Do you think persons that have hunted all their lives from childhood is unprepared?

Do you think the 21.5 million men and women that have been in the armed forces in the last 60 years that are not active service are unprepared?

Do you think all the people that belong to gun clubs are unprepared?

Do you think all the people who go to the firing range regulary are unprepared?

Is there a lot of people that are unprepared? I am afraid so that is the reason I said they need education in the use and care of firearms.

Percy writes:

The bottom line is that the odds of getting shot by a gun while just out and about on your daily routine is incredibly unlikely. But buy a gun and the odds go way up.

So a person that gets a CCP and carrys a concealed semi-automatic handgun is more likely to get shot that a person that does not carry a handgun. Remember to get the CCP license you have to be proficent with the gun.

In 2011 you had a 22.5 in 1000 chance of being the victim of a violent crime. Here

I have owned a gun since I was six years old and have never been shot. That means in 68 years I haven't been shot. Have I ever needed my gun? Yes on 2 occasions. Did I have to use it no. Just the knowledge by the other person that I had it was sufficient.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1445 by Percy, posted 01-24-2013 3:46 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1457 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-24-2013 5:26 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 1491 by Percy, posted 01-25-2013 10:56 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1456 of 5179 (688701)
01-24-2013 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1452 by RAZD
01-24-2013 5:11 PM


STATS please
Hi RAZD,

RAZD writes:

When the cure for a disease kills more people than the disease, should you take the cure?

If I understand that statement you are saying that guns kill more people than they protect.

If that is what you mean please present your stats to support such an assertion.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1452 by RAZD, posted 01-24-2013 5:11 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1460 of 5179 (688705)
01-24-2013 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1457 by New Cat's Eye
01-24-2013 5:26 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi CS,

Catholic Scientist writes:

We simply do not know how many people are deterred from crime because the People are armed. We don't know how many lives have been saved. Its dubious to say that firearms make the odds worse.

But the anti gun group sure want to convince us that there are a lot more deaths by guns than there are people who are benefited from owning a gun.

I keep asking for stats but no one has any.

They won't even acknowledge the ones where the intended victim shot and wounded or even killed the attacker.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1457 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-24-2013 5:26 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1461 of 5179 (688706)
01-24-2013 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1459 by Taq
01-24-2013 5:36 PM


Re: The Un-American Mind
Hi Taq,

Taq writes:

So just ignore all of that bad stuff that happened in christian based western civilizations, right?

Why don't you start a thread and we will discuss what a christian is.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1459 by Taq, posted 01-24-2013 5:36 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1463 by Taq, posted 01-24-2013 5:50 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1492 of 5179 (688807)
01-25-2013 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1491 by Percy
01-25-2013 10:56 AM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

Had there been no gun available then a large number of those 35 people per day would not have been murdered. Remove guns from the situations that arise in the normal course of life and the number of murders will decline.

You know that to be a fact based upon what stats or studys?

Percy writes:

that the criminal is ready and you're not.

What makes you think the criminal would be prepared and I am not?

Percy writes:

The criminal picks the time and place, you don't. The criminal has his weapon out, you don't.

Since I was a sniper I will agree that there are times that a person could kill someone and there is nothing they could do about it.

But I don't think a person could approach me and shoot me with a handgun without getting shot. I hope I never have to find out. I do know I would have a much better chance of surviving if I do not leave home without my carry weapon.

Percy writes:

We're not talking about burglars or thieves, we're talking about a criminal whose intent is to murder you.

I am not worried about a professional killer that is intent on killing me as I have no enemies that I know of unless there is some here at EvC that would go to the point of hiring a hit man.

I am worried about that crack head who would kick in my front door wanting money or possessions that could be sold to get another fix. I am also worried about that person that has no regard for anyone but themselves and prey on old folks because they think they are helpless.

Percy writes:

Man shot and killed when he answered a knock at his door.

I never answer the door without knowing who is on the other side. The equiptment for that is very reasonable at Tiger Direct.

Percy writes:

Man followed to parking garage and shot in torso.

The only way I would be in a parking garage would be if I was working in the building that the garage was attached too. So for someone to follow me to my car he would have to come out of the same door I did and I would be waiting for him.

Percy writes:

Man shot by hitman while sitting in taxi.

This is the case of a professional killing someone and is effective in 95% of the time. Wasn't that almost the same thing that happened to president Kennedy. You did not say how close the hitman was.

Percy writes:

Woman shot in head while getting out of her car.

To give a good answer to this I would need more information concerning the time and location said shooting took place.

Percy writes:

Now I of course grant that you have a better chance of defending yourself if you have a gun, but the odds of being the object of a criminal's murderous pursuit are tiny

I would agree that if a professional murder or sniper wanted to kill you there is no escape. If you had a dozen body guards it would make no difference to either, you would be dead.

So lets agree that you are helpless at the hands of a professional killer.

That is not the one I am concerned with. I am concerned with the kind of people you can find if you google 'home invasions in america'.

Percy writes:

(and the odds of you successfully using the gun to prevent the murder tinier still) compared to the odds that the gun will be used against yourself or someone you know.

There are two people who reside in my house and both qualify expert with any weapon we have in the house.

We always know when our grandchildren and great grandchildren are coming to visit and preparations are made prior to their arival.

So I am not worried about myself or someone I know being killed or shot with one of my weapons.

What do you think I mean when I say I am prepared?
As I have stated previously my house is well protected. I have two exterior doors and you can not come in either during the day or night that I or my wife will not know about at the moment you enter either.

In fact if we are both at the grocery store and you enter my house I will get a message to that effect.

If I am in my house you will not be able to kick either door in and enter my house without looking down the barrel of a Ruger 44 magnum loaded with the first bullet being a armor pericing bullet followed by a hollow point bullet. I have never pointed my weapon at anything that I did not shoot and hit at the exact spot I wanted to hit. I pratice regularly and qualify expert.

Now what do you think your survival chances would be if you broke into my house? I am not going to look to see if you have a gun or a knife or any other object. I will fire upon your entering my house in such a manner.

Granted there are a lot of people that is not as prepared as I am. But I would dare say everyone that was in military during the decade and the one after it that I was is just as qualified as I am. I would not guess what those that were trained later would be qualified to do.
I would say that everyone that goes to the range that I do would be people that you would not want to enter their house by kicking their door down.

Maybe we are paranoid but we intend to survive, if someone breaks into our houses while we are home. All the time we hope that no one ever tries to prove our determination to be wrong.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1491 by Percy, posted 01-25-2013 10:56 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1501 by Percy, posted 01-25-2013 7:19 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 1517 by Straggler, posted 01-27-2013 7:22 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 1493 of 5179 (688808)
01-25-2013 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1486 by Dr Adequate
01-25-2013 5:08 AM


Re: Concentration Camps
Hi Dr,

Dr Adequate writes:

I think we were actually planning to beat you by outvoting you, 'cos your "half" of the nation isn't actually half of the nation

Half of the nation would be 21 States as there are 52 States.

But half of the 52 States can not impose their will on the other States.

In fact a majority of the 52 States can not impose their will of the rest of the States.

It takes 3/4's or 39 States to change the Constitution.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1486 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-25-2013 5:08 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1495 by RAZD, posted 01-25-2013 4:19 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 1502 of 5179 (688853)
01-25-2013 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1501 by Percy
01-25-2013 7:19 PM


Re: Some cases where guns would have helped and where they did help
Hi Percy,

Percy writes:

When people offer themselves as an example it's only useful if they're typical. Could you maybe consider the questions again but for yourself substitute a normal person?

But Percy you gave the results of what would happen to a normal person.

You then asked what I would do.

There is a school that will teach anybody how to protect themselves in any situation. It is pretty expensive but a great insurance policy.
It is called Front Sight. www.frontsight.com/

I am sure there are others but this one is the best in my opinion.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1501 by Percy, posted 01-25-2013 7:19 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1508 by Percy, posted 01-26-2013 8:33 AM ICANT has responded

  
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