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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 747 of 5179 (685428)
12-22-2012 6:08 PM


An opinion on gun control
An opinion on gun control

Larry Correia

(A very long and detailed blog.)

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/...-opinion-on-gun-control


Replies to this message:
 Message 955 by Faith, posted 12-29-2012 7:55 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 903 of 5179 (686018)
12-28-2012 2:44 PM


Another article
Folks ignored the previous article I posted here (Message 747), so here's another one with some text to introduce it this time:

To the eyeball, it looks like a more heavily armed population goes hand-in-hand with less murder, as an average. The statistics bear that out: the correlation coefficient is negative, -0.23, and it is statistically significant.

You can look for various trends, but there is no evidence here that the availability of guns leads to more murders. Two of the most heavily armed countries, Finland and Switzerland, have murder rates of 2.2 and 0.7, among the lowest in the world. On the other hand, every country with a murder rate at least 5 times greater than the U.S.'s has at least 5 times fewer firearms per person than the U.S.

Yes, you can look for trends, but the Centers for Disease Control already did that for you. During 2000-02, a CDC task force "conducted a systematic review of scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of firearms laws in preventing violence, including violent crimes, suicide, and unintentional injury." Here was their conclusion.

"The Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes."

In short, the Al Sharpton advice is exactly wrong: this is not the time, and gun control is not the action. To put it mildly, we have better things to worry about.

http://www.americanthinker.com/...g_to_the_latest_media.html


Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 948 of 5179 (686099)
12-28-2012 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 946 by Percy
12-28-2012 9:28 PM


Re: Statistical Blindness
The ultimate irony is that gun purchases in response to fear of crime is that it increases your risk of gun death.

What we need is more dead criminals and fewer dead victims.

We can only do this by making the price of crime -- statistically -- much higher than it currently is.

Based on this, we need more trained and armed honest citizens, not fewer.

See the two posts I made previously in this thread, linking to very good articles on the subject. So far it looks like nobody has even bothered to read them.

Perhaps I should just quote them in their entirety here?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 946 by Percy, posted 12-28-2012 9:28 PM Percy has responded

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 Message 989 by onifre, posted 12-29-2012 7:24 PM Coyote has responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 960 of 5179 (686128)
12-29-2012 10:30 AM


California gun sales jump; gun injuries, deaths fall
California gun sales jump; gun injuries, deaths fall
By Phillip Reese

Gun deaths and injuries have dropped sharply in California, even as the number of guns sold in the state has risen, according to new state data.

Dealers sold 600,000 guns in California last year, up from 350,000 in 2002, according to records of sale tallied by the California Attorney General's office.

During that same period, the number of California hospitalizations due to gun injuries declined from about 4,000 annually to 2,800, a roughly 25 percent drop, according to hospital records collected by the California Department of Public Health.

Firearm-related deaths fell from about 3,200 annually to about 2,800, an 11 percent drop, state health figures show.

Most of the drop in firearm-related injuries and deaths can be explained by a well-documented, nationwide drop in violent crime.

The number of California injuries and deaths attributed to accidental discharge of firearms also has fallen. The number of suicide deaths involving firearms has remained roughly constant.

More...

http://www.sacbee.com/.../california-gun-sales-increase.html


Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 992 of 5179 (686211)
12-29-2012 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 989 by onifre
12-29-2012 7:24 PM


Re: Guns for whitey
What you mean is we need more armed white citizens. No one wants to put more gun in the hands of people in black neighborhoods or hispanic neighborhoods where the crime rate is ridiculously high. Where they already have lots of guns. Putting more guns in the hands of the "good ones" isn't going to make those neighborhoods better or safer. Those neighborhoods need less guns.

Not all blacks and hispanics live in those types of neighborhoods. Many of them live in smaller rural areas, and are good honest folks. Perhaps your attitudes are influenced by associating with some of our larger cities? I tend to avoid cities in general, and large cities in particular, so perhaps I have different experiences than you do.

This is what those statistics forget to address, the fact that it's not poor people from violent neighborhoods who by in large are good people who they want to give more guns to, so their neighborhoods become safer.

So you are claiming that the NRA doesn't want to arm honest folks who are feeling threatened by violent neighbors? I find that hard to believe.

What the NRA wants is more white people to arm themselves to protect them against violent minorities from those poor neighborhoods who find themselves, often enough, in the position to break into a home and steal a tv. The law now says you can shoot that poor hispanic kid for trying to take your tv.

There are two issues here. First, I feel the purpose of arming folks is to protect lives. I've seen reports where people have shot burglars fleeing down the street with their loot. That's simply homicide, as there is no longer a treat to life. On the other hand, I've seen reports where people are cowering in a bedroom closet trying to get through to 911 when someone starts trying to force the closet door open. That's an entirely different situation, and use of a firearm then is justified as the police are often minutes away when seconds count.

Second, it should not be an accepted practice in some of those poor neighborhoods to go out and steal from others, sometimes through burglary but often through mugging, armed robbery or home invasions. Murder for a hot new iPhone is becoming increasingly common in some areas. Seems to me this is simply a type of tribalism, which is one of the earliest form of human social organization. Some folks have accepted as their tribe a local group whose goals and methods are counter to those of society as a whole. Lacking the integrating mechanisms which our society had in the past, this is increasingly common in many areas.

Let's be honest here on who you want to see have more guns.

Let's not paint everyone with the same brush, eh?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 989 by onifre, posted 12-29-2012 7:24 PM onifre has not yet responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2185 of 5179 (694321)
03-23-2013 9:14 PM


Data
Gun deaths shaped by race in America

Posted by Dan Keating on March 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm

Gun deaths are shaped by race in America. Whites are far more likely to shoot themselves, and African Americans are far more likely to be shot by someone else.

The statistical difference is dramatic, according to a Washington Post analysis of data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A white person is five times as likely to commit suicide with a gun than to be shot with a gun; for each African American who uses a gun to commit suicide, five are killed by other people with guns.

More


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 2246 of 5179 (716722)
01-20-2014 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2245 by New Cat's Eye
01-20-2014 4:13 PM


Re: And yet more shootings......
Its the government.

It doesn't have to make sense.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2245 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-20-2014 4:13 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2336 of 5179 (719775)
02-18-2014 1:00 AM


Some more data
Criminologist: 'More Youngsters Killed in Bicycle Accidents' Than with Guns

http://www.breitbart.com/...Bicycle-Accidents-Than-With-Guns


Replies to this message:
 Message 2337 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-18-2014 2:13 AM Coyote has not yet responded
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2945 of 5179 (745088)
12-18-2014 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2944 by NoNukes
12-18-2014 9:23 PM


Re: self defence
Just a quick question--

Do you own any guns yourself?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2944 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 9:23 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2947 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 9:43 PM Coyote has responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2951 of 5179 (745095)
12-18-2014 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2947 by NoNukes
12-18-2014 9:43 PM


Re: self defence
Do you own any guns yourself?

What's your real name and address?

Why are you reluctant to answer that simple question?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2947 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 9:43 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2953 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 10:15 PM Coyote has responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 2959 of 5179 (745108)
12-18-2014 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2953 by NoNukes
12-18-2014 10:15 PM


Re: self defence
Why are you reluctant to answer that simple question?

What's your real name and address?

I can keep this up as long as you want.


You have already given enough of an answer to my repeated question to show where you are coming from on this issue.

I'm sure the other posters and the lurkers can see that as well.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2953 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 10:15 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2965 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 11:56 PM Coyote has not yet responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 2961 of 5179 (745111)
12-18-2014 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2960 by herebedragons
12-18-2014 11:33 PM


Re: Let's keep the Islam out of this topic
How can you be certain that the people you arm are actually the good guys?

The bad guys are already armed...


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2960 by herebedragons, posted 12-18-2014 11:33 PM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3016 by herebedragons, posted 12-20-2014 9:24 AM Coyote has not yet responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 3062 of 5179 (745306)
12-21-2014 6:18 PM


"There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men."

Robert A. Heinlein


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 4960 of 5179 (787104)
07-03-2016 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4959 by kjsimons
07-03-2016 9:23 PM


Re: 113 and counting
From the beginning of the year until June 27th, there have been 113 homicides in Orange Country Florida, 49 from the Pulse nightclub shooting. Of these 113, 100 were shooting deaths. Obviously we have a gun problem in this country!

We have a people problem.

I live out in the hills not far from a medium-sized California city. The murder rate out in these hills and surrounding hills is zero, even though virtually every house is well armed.

The nearby medium-sized city with a large hispanic population and major gang and drug problems has a large number of shooting deaths, one of the worse in the state.

There is no such thing as dangerous weapons, only dangerous people.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4959 by kjsimons, posted 07-03-2016 9:23 PM kjsimons has responded

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 361 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 4974 of 5179 (796630)
01-01-2017 11:12 PM


Man with concealed-carry permit fatally shoots would-be robber
Man with concealed-carry permit fatally shoots would-be robber

http://chicago.suntimes.com/...-attempted-robbery-in-chatham

A man with a concealed-carry license fatally shot a would-be robber in Chatham Friday afternoon, sources said.

The 23-year-old man was walking in the 8200 block of South Ingleside about 1:54 p.m. when another male pulled out a gun and tried to rob him, according to police.

A fight broke out and the 23-year-old, who was licensed to carry a firearm, pulled out his own gun and shot the would-be robber in the head, killing him, sources said.

More


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


Replies to this message:
 Message 4975 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-01-2017 11:48 PM Coyote has not yet responded
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