Folks ignored the previous article I posted here (Message 747), so here's another one with some text to introduce it this time:
To the eyeball, it looks like a more heavily armed population goes hand-in-hand with less murder, as an average. The statistics bear that out: the correlation coefficient is negative, -0.23, and it is statistically significant.
You can look for various trends, but there is no evidence here that the availability of guns leads to more murders. Two of the most heavily armed countries, Finland and Switzerland, have murder rates of 2.2 and 0.7, among the lowest in the world. On the other hand, every country with a murder rate at least 5 times greater than the U.S.'s has at least 5 times fewer firearms per person than the U.S.
Yes, you can look for trends, but the Centers for Disease Control already did that for you. During 2000-02, a CDC task force "conducted a systematic review of scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of firearms laws in preventing violence, including violent crimes, suicide, and unintentional injury." Here was their conclusion.
"The Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes."
In short, the Al Sharpton advice is exactly wrong: this is not the time, and gun control is not the action. To put it mildly, we have better things to worry about.
California gun sales jump; gun injuries, deaths fall
California gun sales jump; gun injuries, deaths fall By Phillip Reese
Gun deaths and injuries have dropped sharply in California, even as the number of guns sold in the state has risen, according to new state data.
Dealers sold 600,000 guns in California last year, up from 350,000 in 2002, according to records of sale tallied by the California Attorney General's office.
During that same period, the number of California hospitalizations due to gun injuries declined from about 4,000 annually to 2,800, a roughly 25 percent drop, according to hospital records collected by the California Department of Public Health.
Firearm-related deaths fell from about 3,200 annually to about 2,800, an 11 percent drop, state health figures show.
Most of the drop in firearm-related injuries and deaths can be explained by a well-documented, nationwide drop in violent crime.
The number of California injuries and deaths attributed to accidental discharge of firearms also has fallen. The number of suicide deaths involving firearms has remained roughly constant.
What you mean is we need more armed white citizens. No one wants to put more gun in the hands of people in black neighborhoods or hispanic neighborhoods where the crime rate is ridiculously high. Where they already have lots of guns. Putting more guns in the hands of the "good ones" isn't going to make those neighborhoods better or safer. Those neighborhoods need less guns.
Not all blacks and hispanics live in those types of neighborhoods. Many of them live in smaller rural areas, and are good honest folks. Perhaps your attitudes are influenced by associating with some of our larger cities? I tend to avoid cities in general, and large cities in particular, so perhaps I have different experiences than you do.
This is what those statistics forget to address, the fact that it's not poor people from violent neighborhoods who by in large are good people who they want to give more guns to, so their neighborhoods become safer.
So you are claiming that the NRA doesn't want to arm honest folks who are feeling threatened by violent neighbors? I find that hard to believe.
What the NRA wants is more white people to arm themselves to protect them against violent minorities from those poor neighborhoods who find themselves, often enough, in the position to break into a home and steal a tv. The law now says you can shoot that poor hispanic kid for trying to take your tv.
There are two issues here. First, I feel the purpose of arming folks is to protect lives. I've seen reports where people have shot burglars fleeing down the street with their loot. That's simply homicide, as there is no longer a treat to life. On the other hand, I've seen reports where people are cowering in a bedroom closet trying to get through to 911 when someone starts trying to force the closet door open. That's an entirely different situation, and use of a firearm then is justified as the police are often minutes away when seconds count.
Second, it should not be an accepted practice in some of those poor neighborhoods to go out and steal from others, sometimes through burglary but often through mugging, armed robbery or home invasions. Murder for a hot new iPhone is becoming increasingly common in some areas. Seems to me this is simply a type of tribalism, which is one of the earliest form of human social organization. Some folks have accepted as their tribe a local group whose goals and methods are counter to those of society as a whole. Lacking the integrating mechanisms which our society had in the past, this is increasingly common in many areas.
Let's be honest here on who you want to see have more guns.
Posted by Dan Keating on March 22, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Gun deaths are shaped by race in America. Whites are far more likely to shoot themselves, and African Americans are far more likely to be shot by someone else.
The statistical difference is dramatic, according to a Washington Post analysis of data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A white person is five times as likely to commit suicide with a gun than to be shot with a gun; for each African American who uses a gun to commit suicide, five are killed by other people with guns.
From the beginning of the year until June 27th, there have been 113 homicides in Orange Country Florida, 49 from the Pulse nightclub shooting. Of these 113, 100 were shooting deaths. Obviously we have a gun problem in this country!
We have a people problem.
I live out in the hills not far from a medium-sized California city. The murder rate out in these hills and surrounding hills is zero, even though virtually every house is well armed.
The nearby medium-sized city with a large hispanic population and major gang and drug problems has a large number of shooting deaths, one of the worse in the state.
There is no such thing as dangerous weapons, only dangerous people.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.