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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 950 of 5179 (686102)
12-28-2012 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 949 by kofh2u
12-28-2012 9:40 PM


Re: Another article
These illegitimate babies are supported by Welfare.

What does this have to do with gun control??

Do you or have you ever received the Earned Income Tax Credit or any other form of tax credit, unemployment, food stamps, WIC, Medicaid, school meal vouchers, disability, public housing, Pell Grant, cooperate welfare, etc. Just about every non-wealthy person has or continues to receives subsidies, tax cuts, and some form of 'welfare'. Stop being a hypocrite.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 949 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 9:40 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 954 of 5179 (686118)
12-29-2012 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 952 by Tangle
12-29-2012 6:10 AM


Re: Statistical Blindness
Talk of arming teachers and equiping kids with kevlar backpacks is an anathema to me and the idea that the solution is more guns is barking mad.

Could not agree with you more. I am not a big Michael Moore fan but I think he hits the nail on the head here:

'3 Reasons America Is Falling Apart -- And How We Can Save Ourselves' - Michael Moore writes:

After watching the deranged, delusional National Rifle Association press conference on Friday, it was clear that the Mayan prophecy had come true. Except the only world that was ending was the NRA's. Their bullying power to set gun policy in this country is over. The nation is repulsed by the massacre in Connecticut, and the signs are everywhere: a basketball coach at a post-game press conference; the Republican Joe Scarborough; a pawn shop owner in Florida; a gun buy-back program in New Jersey; a singing contest show on TV, and the conservative gun-owning judge who sentenced Jared Loughner.

So here's my little bit of holiday cheer for you:

These gun massacres aren't going to end any time soon.

I'm sorry to say this. But deep down we both know it's true. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep pushing forward -- after all, the momentum is on our side. I know all of us -- including me -- would love to see the president and Congress enact stronger gun laws. We need a ban on automatic AND semiautomatic weapons and magazine clips that hold more than 7 bullets. We need better background checks and more mental health services. We need to regulate the ammo, too.

But, friends, I would like to propose that while all of the above will certainly reduce gun deaths (ask Mayor Bloomberg -- it is virtually impossible to buy a handgun in New York City and the result is the number of murders per year has gone from 2,200 to under 400), it won't really bring about an end to these mass slayings and it will not address the core problem we have. Connecticut had one of the strongest gun laws in the country. That did nothing to prevent the murders of 20 small children on December 14th.

In fact, let's be clear about Newtown: the killer had no criminal record so he would never have shown up on a background check. All of the guns he used were legally purchased. None fit the legal description of an "assault" weapon. The killer seemed to have mental problems and his mother had him seek help, but that was worthless. As for security measures, the Sandy Hook school was locked down and buttoned up BEFORE the killer showed up that morning. Drills had been held for just such an incident. A lot of good that did.

And here's the dirty little fact none of us liberals want to discuss: The killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds -- i.e, the men with the guns. When he saw the guns a-coming, he stopped the bloodshed and killed himself. Guns on police officers prevented another 20 or 40 or 100 deaths from happening. Guns sometimes work. (Then again, there was an armed deputy sheriff at Columbine High School the day of that massacre and he couldn't/didn't stop it.)

I am sorry to offer this reality check on our much-needed march toward a bunch of well-intended, necessary -- but ultimately, mostly cosmetic-- changes to our gun laws. The sad facts are these: Other countries that have guns (like Canada, which has 7 million guns -- mostly hunting guns -- in their 12 million households) have a low murder rate. Kids in Japan watch the same violent movies and kids in Australia play the same violent video games (Grand Theft Auto was created by a British company; the UK had 58 gun murders last year in a nation of 63 million people). They simply don't kill each other at the rate that we do. Why is that? THAT is the question we should be exploring while we are banning and restricting guns: Who are we?

We are a country whose leaders officially sanction and carry out acts of violence as a means to often an immoral end. We invade countries who didn't attack us. We're currently using drones in a half-dozen countries, often killing civilians.

This probably shouldn't come as a surprise to us as we are a nation founded on genocide and built on the backs of slaves. We slaughtered 600,000 of each other in a civil war. We "tamed the Wild West with a six-shooter," and we rape and beat and kill our women without mercy and at a staggering rate: every three hours a women is murdered in the USA (half the time by an ex or a current); every three minutes a woman is raped in the USA; and every 15 seconds a woman is beaten in the USA.

We belong to an illustrious group of nations that still have the death penalty (North Korea, Saudi Arabia, China, Iran). We think nothing of letting tens of thousands of our own citizens die each year because they are uninsured and thus don't see a doctor until it's too late.

Why do we do this? One theory is simply "because we can." There is a level of arrogance in the otherwise friendly American spirit, conning ourselves into believing there's something exceptional about us that separates us from all those "other" countries (there are indeed many good things about us; the same could also be said of Belgium, New Zealand, France, Germany, etc.). We think we're #1 in everything when the truth is our students are 17th in science and 25th in math, and we're 35th in life expectancy. We believe we have the greatest democracy but we have the lowest voting turnout of any western democracy. We're biggest and the bestest at everything and we demand and take what we want.

And sometimes we have to be violent m*****f*****s to get it. But if one of us goes off-message and shows the utterly psychotic nature and brutal results of violence in a Newtown or an Aurora or a Virginia Tech, then we get all "sad" and "our hearts go out to the families" and presidents promise to take "meaningful action." Well, maybe this president means it this time. He'd better. An angry mob of millions is not going to let this drop.

While we are discussing and demanding what to do, may I respectfully ask that we stop and take a look at what I believe are the three extenuating factors that may answer the question of why we Americans have more violence than most anyone else:

1. POVERTY. If there's one thing that separates us from the rest of the developed world, it's this. 50 million of our people live in poverty. One in five Americans goes hungry at some point during the year. The majority of those who aren't poor are living from paycheck to paycheck. There's no doubt this creates more crime. Middle class jobs prevent crime and violence. (If you don't believe that, ask yourself this: If your neighbor has a job and is making $50,000/year, what are the chances he's going to break into your home, shoot you and take your TV? Nil.)

2. FEAR/RACISM. We're an awfully fearful country considering that, unlike most nations, we've never been invaded. (No, 1812 wasn't an invasion. We started it.) Why on earth would we need 300 million guns in our homes? I get why the Russians might be a little spooked (over 20 million of them died in World War II). But what's our excuse? Worried that the Indians from the casino may go on the warpath? Concerned that the Canadians seem to be amassing too many Tim Horton's donut shops on both sides of the border?

No. It's because too many white people are afraid of black people. Period. The vast majority of the guns in the U.S. are sold to white people who live in the suburbs or the country. When we fantasize about being mugged or home invaded, what's the image of the perpetrator in our heads? Is it the freckled-face kid from down the street -- or is it someone who is, if not black, at least poor?

I think it would be worth it to a) do our best to eradicate poverty and re-create the middle class we used to have, and b) stop promoting the image of the black man as the boogeyman out to hurt you. Calm down, white people, and put away your guns.

3. THE "ME" SOCIETY. I think it's the every-man-for-himself ethos of this country that has put us in this mess and I believe it's been our undoing. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps! You're not my problem! This is mine!

Clearly, we are no longer our brother's and sister's keeper. You get sick and can't afford the operation? Not my problem. The bank has foreclosed on your home? Not my problem. Can't afford to go to college? Not my problem.

And yet, it all sooner or later becomes our problem, doesn't it? Take away too many safety nets and everyone starts to feel the impact. Do you want to live in that kind of society, one where you will then have a legitimate reason to be in fear? I don't.

I'm not saying it's perfect anywhere else, but I have noticed, in my travels, that other civilized countries see a national benefit to taking care of each other. Free medical care, free or low-cost college, mental health help. And I wonder -- why can't we do that? I think it's because in many other countries people see each other not as separate and alone but rather together, on the path of life, with each person existing as an integral part of the whole. And you help them when they're in need, not punish them because they've had some misfortune or bad break. I have to believe one of the reasons gun murders in other countries are so rare is because there's less of the lone wolf mentality amongst their citizens. Most are raised with a sense of connection, if not outright solidarity. And that makes it harder to kill one another.

Well, there's some food for thought as we head home for the holidays. Don't forget to say hi to your conservative brother-in-law for me. Even he will tell you that, if you can't nail a deer in three shots -- and claim you need a clip of 30 rounds -- you're not a hunter my friend, and you have no business owning a gun.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 952 by Tangle, posted 12-29-2012 6:10 AM Tangle has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 956 of 5179 (686120)
12-29-2012 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 955 by Faith
12-29-2012 7:55 AM


Re: An opinion on gun control -- Coyote's link
Faith,

Just emailed it to you. Let me know if you didn't get it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 955 by Faith, posted 12-29-2012 7:55 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 957 by Faith, posted 12-29-2012 8:11 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(3)
Message 2093 of 5179 (693386)
03-14-2013 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2088 by Faith
03-14-2013 6:27 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Sure, by now there may be enough stupid people in the country to vote down the Second Amendment, give it a try. Just don't overthrow the Constitution without following the rules.

I don't know anyone who is pro-gun control trying to "overthrow the Constitution" much less doing it through force and without following the 'rules' of passing laws through our legislative branch. If you know any, clue us in.

Just as a reminder, the point was that the founders saw the need for the Second Amendment as protection against tyrannical government.

Yes and no, that was a reason but not the only reason that the Second Amendment was included in the Bill of Rights. Militias of armed citizens were thought at the time to be a deterrent to prevent a tyrannical government from coming into power in the first place. However, at the same time these militias were seen as a way to prevent invasion and suppress insurrection as well.

US Constitution writes:

The Congress shall have Power To ... provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia ...

The gun control people we are hearing from now are siding with the oppressors and murderers in all those instances whether you know it or not.

Really? Those parents and relatives who lost children, sisters, brothers, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends, etc due to gun violence, 'side with oppressors and murderers' because they believe in gun regulation and background checks?

You may want to think about what you say before your stick your self-righteous, condescending foot in your mouth.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2088 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 6:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2097 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 9:28 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 2094 of 5179 (693387)
03-14-2013 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2091 by Rahvin
03-14-2013 7:01 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
If the US government flipped into Holocaust mode and instituted martial law, how well do you think individuals with firearms would hold up?
Let's imagine, for the sake of argument, that you and most of the country is armed to the teeth with all the handguns, rifles, and ammunition you can fit in your homes.

Would you be able to stop a tank from just bulldozing your home for your resistance?

How about if all of your neighbors tried to help? Could you stand up against the US Army? The National Guard? Even your nearest SWAT team?

The US military has tens of thousand land attack missiles, thousands of planes with tens of thousand of bombs and land attack rockets and missiles, tens of thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of infantry and artillery (25mm, 50 cal, etc). No amount of assault rifles and high capacity small arms magazines would do any good against this overwhelming force.

This is not even counting the 5000+ nuclear weapons each of which can take out an entire city.

The framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights did not foresee a buildup of a standing US military to our present day capabilities. Thus, effectively making the purpose of the Second Amendment to 'topple a tyrannical US government' null and void event if that is what was originally intended.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2091 by Rahvin, posted 03-14-2013 7:01 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 2098 of 5179 (693393)
03-14-2013 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2095 by Faith
03-14-2013 9:19 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
My own is a very simple answer: If government wants to round us up and send us to camps or something like that, it would be better if households were armed for resistance, and whole neighborhoods perhaps.

If the government wanted to round you up, you would stand no chance to resist. This is exactly what happened with the Jews, even those with weapons stood no chance against the massive German military state. It is a fallacy and a lie to think otherwise. Only through the military actions of Allied countries were the remaining Jews able to be saved.

If they are so out to get us that they send killer drones or heavy artillery after us then there's nothing we can do about it, but worrying about that eventuality is no excuse for us not to have whatever weaponry is feasible short of that.

Why, what is the purpose if you have no earthly way possible to protect yourself from hell on earth. The purpose of personal weapons in todays day and age is to protect home and hearth from criminals and deviants not from the US military.

I am as much a proponent of the 2nd Amendment as any other US citizen. I have a family to protect as well. But I am not ignorant enough to think that I could ever protect myself from the US military if they wanted to kill me. That is just inane and ridiculous to even think about.

It looks to me like our democratic channels are failing us more and more, but be that as it may, to have any hope of surviving a government that makes war on some part of the citizenry would depend a great deal on a VOCAL uprising of The People against that government. I'd even expect some of those here to stand up for evil ol me if they came after me.

Vocal uprising, protests, and legal democratic channels are not in jeopardy. Just because you disagree with other citizens who legally are challenging our current gun laws does not give you the right to commit armed resistance against the government. What specifically do you see occurring that you think that entitles you to take up arms against the government?

In all those countries where for instance soldiers refused to fire on the people the soldiers were summarily executed along with them.

Really!?! You are going to compare modern, democratic US with Nazi Germany or Stalin Russia? What leaps of logic are you using to equate us with these despot regimes?

The argument makes no sense that we should give up ordinary means of defense just because we COULD be blown away by major means.

How is universal background checks and regulating military grade weapons that were not even thought of 200 years ago removing 'ordinary' means of defense. You can defend yourself against home invasion or bodily harm just as easily with a shotgun, rifle or hand gun as you can with an AR-15 with a 50 rds magazine. Do you think that if you don't have a military grade assault rifle that you can't defend yourself?

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are.” - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2095 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 9:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2100 by kofh2u, posted 03-14-2013 10:03 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 2099 of 5179 (693396)
03-14-2013 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2097 by Faith
03-14-2013 9:28 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Well, public sentiment seems to be turning in that direction, and even a "scholarly" paper I encountered somewhere, wonder if I can find it, that simply declares the Second Amendment outdated, and the Constitution itself. That's like groundwork for doing it in altogether if such ideas are pursued. There's enough popular opposition at the moment but give it time.

So you cite a paper which you don't even have available as a source for fear mongering.

Yes, militias, formed of the people, were considered to be THE defense of the nation in the minds of most back then. So?

My point exactly. So what. What is your point.

The reason I put up the quotes of the founders, however, was to show their pretty much unanimous concern for the people's need to defend against tyrannical government.

Which is moot in todays, day and age. You having these weapons is not going to prevent a tyrannical government from taking place. You participating in an democratic elective government will.

Those who buy into this ploy ARE siding with the oppressors and tyrants and they've sure done a good job of propagandizing you and the others here. WAKE UP.

You have no idea what my beliefs and philosophy on gun control are.

Pretty telling and hypocritical coming from some who doesn't own a weapon telling someone who actually does own one and who has fired some of the most lethal weapons on how wrong they are about gun regulations. Your ignorance and self-righteous bigotry astounds me.

Seems to me that the energy behind this push is some kind of demonstration that the powers that be don't like the idea of being confronted by an armed household or neighborhood despite all their advanced weaponry. Another argument for keeping our guns

So you want to play with the big boys. So the case you are building is that even assault rifles and the like are not enough. Why not the average citizen own bazookas, missile launchers, 25mm gun emplacements and the like in their front yard. If you want to play war with the US military there is no hold barred for the 2nd Amendment. Your point is ridiculous. You are no match for the US military unless you have all the weapons at the US military's disposal including nuclear weapons. We did this with other countries and it did not work, it was called the arms race. It is a never ending proliferation of weapons. What makes you think it will work with US citizen Smith vs the US military?

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2097 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 9:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2102 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:15 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2101 of 5179 (693398)
03-14-2013 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2096 by Eli
03-14-2013 9:27 PM


Can someone explain how these two positions can rationally occupy the same worldview?

They can't. That is why it is an irrational world view. I truly believe the crazy conspiracy people are trying to take over.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2096 by Eli, posted 03-14-2013 9:27 PM Eli has acknowledged this reply

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2103 of 5179 (693401)
03-14-2013 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2100 by kofh2u
03-14-2013 10:03 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
What if the government wanted to take sides with the inner cities and the Unions, rising up against the rural and suburban Americans and simply "nationalizing" all property by force?

So all people from the inner city and unions (police, fireman, teachers,) etc want to take away there own rights and become zombies of the federal government. Is that what you are stating?

Might as well say any one who is not a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, Muslim and black-hating, American Citizen is an enemy to the US Constitution and of the US itself. Let's just keep going down this delusional conspiracy theory road.

Weapons for resistance. What resistance. There would be no resistance to the US military if they sided against you. You are delusional to think otherwise. 115 naval ships, thousands of nucler weapons, etc, etc, etc to bomb you from here to kingdom come. Preventing this is the fact that we are law-abiding US citizens who love our countries and have families who are US citizens that we love. No amount of weaponry you have would make a difference unless you had the same weaponry as the US military.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2100 by kofh2u, posted 03-14-2013 10:03 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2104 of 5179 (693402)
03-14-2013 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2102 by Faith
03-14-2013 10:15 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
What is the need for your uncivil accusatory tone? Good grief.

Good grief?

I have tried to be civil, you are the one that said WAKE UP and I chose to ignore it.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2102 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:15 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2106 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:24 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2105 of 5179 (693403)
03-14-2013 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2102 by Faith
03-14-2013 10:15 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Is it POSSIBLE for you or others here to speak in a decent civil manner giving just a tad of benefit of the doubt or is that just beyond you? Yes I can probably find the paper, although it might not be easy, what's the need for the accusatory condemnatory attitude? It was written by a Jesuit professor at some University in the East, Georgetown perhaps, or Fordham. Do you really want me to dig it up?

Give respect and you will get respect. Or is that too Christian of you.

Do you really want me to dig it up?

Do I want you to back up your assertions. Let me see. How about YES.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2102 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:15 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2109 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:26 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2107 of 5179 (693405)
03-14-2013 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2106 by Faith
03-14-2013 10:24 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
All that because I said "Wake up?" Wow. Talk about a handgun against a nuclear weapon.

You know nothing about me Faith. Again, your self-righteous, condescending nature shows through.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2106 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2110 of 5179 (693408)
03-14-2013 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2102 by Faith
03-14-2013 10:15 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
Just LISTEN TO YOURSELF. What have I said or done to deserve such an attitude? Get off your moral high horse and see if it's possible to be a human being. I've said NOTHING to deserve being talked to like this,.

How about you listen to yourself? You come on here condescending anyone who disagrees with you. Telling them to wake up. How do you think a person is going to react. Really?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2102 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 2111 of 5179 (693409)
03-14-2013 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2109 by Faith
03-14-2013 10:26 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
You've lost your mind.

No Faith, you never say anything derogatory. You never demean anyone on here. Only everyone else is crazy, demeaning, spiteful, vindictive etc.

Faith writes:

I'm sure it's only toilet paper to the idiot Left.

What kind of screaming craziness is this?

You are also again indulging in stupid strawmannism

Unlike you and other irrational polyannas

This is where you guys are SO naive.

Just the usual posturing blathering saying absolutely nothing. You're the halfwit masquerading as intelligent. What a laugh.

etc, etc.

Pot calling kettle much? OR if you prefer

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2109 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2112 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:57 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded
 Message 2114 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 11:17 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1355 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 2113 of 5179 (693412)
03-14-2013 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2112 by Faith
03-14-2013 10:57 PM


Re: The movement to trash the Constitution
NEVERTHELESS I'll try to be nicer.

Whatever dude.

He is Louis Michael Seidman, Professor of Constitutional Law yet, at Georgetown University:

I will read and get back to you. Must go to bed to get up at 3am.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2112 by Faith, posted 03-14-2013 10:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

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