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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(3)
Message 150 of 5179 (684187)
12-16-2012 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Percy
12-14-2012 8:45 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Percy says:

The massacres will continue as long as gun availability continues.

...and of course, I say massacres will continue as long as humans are alive. But i agree that 100-shot magazines are more easily capable of creating shocking massacres.

There is no easy way out. It's about the parents bringing up the wackos. It's about professionals in the field of psychology not identifying and informing the appropriate authorities about dangerous wackos and how hopelessly inadequate that field is today. It's about having police roaming the school halls in some gestapo-ish way. It's about making ammunition signatured and limited on a yearly basis. No easy way out. It's also tangentially about the relative risks to our children being assessed in a country that seems to suffer horribly from innumeracy, as crashfrog pointed out. No easy way out.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Percy, posted 12-14-2012 8:45 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2012 11:27 AM xongsmith has responded
 Message 166 by Percy, posted 12-16-2012 2:38 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 152 of 5179 (684189)
12-16-2012 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
12-15-2012 5:33 AM


Re: guns versus mentality
Faith shouts:
I don't believe equal gender rights, or a ban on owing a slave were included.

THOSE WERE CHANGED ACCORDING TO THE LAW i'M REFERRING TO, IT WAS DONE IN AN ORDERLY AND LAWFUL FASHION...{snzzpt}

Not the first item. The ERA still has not been ratified.

As the late John Lennon said, "woman is the nigger of the world".


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 12-15-2012 5:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 153 of 5179 (684190)
12-16-2012 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Tangle
12-16-2012 11:27 AM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Tangle replies:
There's an easy place to start though.
Reducing the availability of guns will reduce the number of gun deaths. Simples.

Simple? LOL

Whatever makes you think that this would be easy? Where in the world have you been? This country has wrestled over this issue ALL MY LIFE that I know of. Consider even Faith's argument that this occurred in one of the strictest gun-control states in the union. The availability of guns to be used for whacko massacres or just the daily grind of crime will still be available enough to occur as needed to fulfill the niche occupied at the negative end of the bell-shaped curve of our population statistics.

Here's a "simples" for you: Just make everybody in the world nice and loving and giving and peaceful by dream-state telepathic thought waves. Tomorrow morning everyone wakes up singing.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2012 11:27 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2012 12:04 PM xongsmith has responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 155 of 5179 (684192)
12-16-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by RAZD
12-15-2012 9:15 AM


Re: the Second Amendment and the National Guard
RAZD writes:

You want to bear arms? Join the National Guard. You want to play with big guns? Join the National Guard.

Well said!

...but beware, unlike years gone yore, today this may mean a stint or three in the middle east to defend prosperous multi-national oil companies occupying the indigenous forlorn desert peoples of the region.

I mean, WOW, talk about gun control....

Edited by xongsmith, : last comment


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by RAZD, posted 12-15-2012 9:15 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 157 of 5179 (684194)
12-16-2012 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by crashfrog
12-15-2012 10:13 AM


Crashfrog notes:
It's like being hit by a meteor.

I was wondering when this would show up.

The Geminids this weekend were nice to look at, but never once did I think one of them would actually hit me.

I do admit I was looking for a bolide to miss me.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by crashfrog, posted 12-15-2012 10:13 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 158 of 5179 (684196)
12-16-2012 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by RAZD
12-15-2012 4:03 PM


Re: Homicide Rate Graphs/stats
Hi RAZD,

One of my stupidly favorite scenes in movies is from that horribly stupid movie, "Tremors", starring in a rare lead role, Kevin Bacon of 6-degrees fame. In this movie, Reba McIntyre of country-western (both kinds) fame and the father of a now-forgotten TV series are Survivalists in their bunker on the outskirts of town. The sandworm is swimming through the ground and smashes into their basement wall. They are ready for it. It finally breaks through and, in one of the greatest pan shots in cinema, the camera rotates around to the walls in the basement, revealing a cache of guns to be the talk of the town. Rack after rack of weapons cover the walls, just like your picture here. Our man is emptying gun after gun after gun after gun into the sandworm, Reba adding her equal projectile force with guns she grabs into the creature between handing him yet another gun. THEY WIN! THE WORM DIES!

He barks loudly back at it "Broke into the wrong basement didncha!!"


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by RAZD, posted 12-15-2012 4:03 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 160 of 5179 (684200)
12-16-2012 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Tangle
12-16-2012 12:04 PM


Re: The Reality aint easy
Tangle replies:
Yes, it's really simple. So simple that most countries have done it - the USA isn't a special case of anything except its own inability to look outside itself.

Or, alternatively, declare it too hard, do absolutely nothing but wring your hands, then repeat this thread in 6 months time.

NO IT IS NOT SIMPLE. You are talking about changing the LAW. This is not an imaginary fairy with wand, no wishful thinking. I am talking about the USA reality of trying to convince enough people to limit guns through legislation as carried out by voting for those who would support such a movement. It's the CULTURE that we have to fix. BUT EVEN IN THIS CASE - in Connecticut - with some of the most stringent gun laws in the country, you will notice that this wacko STOLE the guns from his mother (a wacko already for owning such an array of weaponery), killed her, then went to her school and blew out a window in the school to get inside the building, bypassing security at the doors and still got in and killed the children.

What happened here is beyond any reasonable Law you could conger up. The only way this extremely rare event could have been addressed is in the killer's childhood upbringing. The mother and the completely ignored father in the story are most at fault, in my opinion - because "fault" has to be born by those who would know better - not those who's brains are so broken by the time they walk out into the public world there is no other choice for them. Sure - shoot them to kill when they are committing the horror. But follow the dots back.

Officer Krupke, you're really a square, yada yada, etc.

Your desire to enact a more european-style gun law is well-taken, and in most cases I would agree, but it is similar to Bush the W invading Iraq after 9/11. It is completely missing the Newtown, Connecticut problem.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2012 12:04 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Tangle, posted 12-16-2012 1:51 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 225 of 5179 (684286)
12-16-2012 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by RAZD
12-16-2012 10:41 PM


Re: the Second Amendment and the National Guard - NOT the military
RAZD writes:
You will note that it is the Governor of the states that call out the National Guard to respond to riots, etc. ... because he is the one in charge of the state's militia.

Hmmm...I don't seem to recall Alabama Governor George Wallace calling out the National Guard during the Civil Rights demonstrations. Seems they were called out by Washington, D.C.?


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2012 10:41 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by NoNukes, posted 12-16-2012 11:51 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply
 Message 227 by Theodoric, posted 12-17-2012 12:01 AM xongsmith has responded
 Message 229 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2012 1:11 AM xongsmith has responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 228 of 5179 (684294)
12-17-2012 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Theodoric
12-17-2012 12:01 AM


Re: the Second Amendment and the National Guard - NOT the military
NoNukes & Theodoric help me make my tiny point. Thanks.

The National Guard is not really controlled at the state level. The POTUS actually is the plenipotentiary here. Therefore, to use the National Guard as an example of the current modern America's exercise of the intent of the 2nd Amendment to prevent the government from disarming the citizenry, as crashfrog has argued, is flawed.

RAZD has made a good argument for most of the issues raised - particularly for finding a way for gun freaks to get to have their fun, but it fails under crashfrog's criterion.

....obligatory Dylan quote:
"I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more.
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more.
Well, he puts his cigar
Out in your face just for kicks.
His bedroom window
It is made out of bricks.
The National Guard stands around his door.
Ah, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's pa no more."

Edited by xongsmith, : attribution props to his Bobness


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Theodoric, posted 12-17-2012 12:01 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 230 of 5179 (684298)
12-17-2012 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by RAZD
12-17-2012 1:11 AM


Re: the Second Amendment and the National Guard - NOT the military
Thanks, RAZD. Sorry to make you do my dirty work.

Those were the days indeed.

But my nitpick remains - the POTUS can take over the National Guard.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2012 1:11 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 420 of 5179 (684669)
12-18-2012 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
12-18-2012 11:38 AM


Re: And so the pendulum swings again.
The Big 12 footer Bird writes:

Except that is not the case, since many gun enthusiasts know how to reload their own shell casings. In fact, there is even a wikihow page explaining exactly the steps to do so. All an individual would have to have to replenish ammunition is a small bag of shell casings. The rest can be put together pretty simply.
How to Reload Ammo: 10 Steps

This still requires special equipment that could be banned. And it still seems to require a bullet. See Step 8. Where the fuck did the bullet come from? Lead can be obtained, but we're talking equipment to melt it into shape good enough for this procedure.

Edited by xongsmith, : Not even close to a typo! Wow....


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 12-18-2012 11:38 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 426 of 5179 (684679)
12-18-2012 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 12:00 PM


what to do
Hey crash, all arguments aside for the moment - do you believe there is or is not a gun problem in the USA?

I look at your Message 19 and think so. I look even more at your Message 307 and think so.

But if not, bye bye. But I somehow think you do think there is a problem. Therefore, assuming you do, what do you think would be cool to do now to implement the points you make in Message 307?

Does this get back to the filibustering issue in the Senate?

Your friend,


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 12:00 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 431 of 5179 (684684)
12-18-2012 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 425 by Rahvin
12-18-2012 12:14 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Rahvin argues:

You do also realize, crash, that gun ownership does not and has never worked as a deterrent to prevent home invasion, right? A criminal has no way of knowing whether a given home contains a gun owner or not; most home invaders try to commit their crimes while the victims are away, so as to avoid the police or any form of confrontation. For the remainder...the possibility of a homeowner with a gun being present simply escalates the threat.

You shoot your own foot here! The fact of 300 million guns in a country of 360 million means that the potential home robber would intelligently have TO WAIT until the gun-talented people in the house are gone (like on vacation). Or else he's already berserk and doesn't care to live so much. He NOT going to take a chance that this house is unarmed, like he would in Britain, perhaps. He might be totally wrong in his calculations, but he will still calculate to NOT try. That is all that matters. An NRA sticker on the window - regardless of whether there are any actual guns inside - may be all he needs to move on down the street to the next house he has been casing.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 425 by Rahvin, posted 12-18-2012 12:14 PM Rahvin has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 500 of 5179 (684763)
12-18-2012 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 446 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 1:13 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Crash - you have to enlarge to salient points of the graph. You cant get away with white non-grided graphs. You should be ashamed of yourself for foisting this stupid graphic on us. Ashamed!

Edited by xongsmith, : okay typos hit me baqd here


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 1:13 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2012 3:31 PM xongsmith has not yet responded
 Message 503 by Theodoric, posted 12-18-2012 3:38 PM xongsmith has not yet responded
 Message 510 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 4:02 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1921
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 501 of 5179 (684766)
12-18-2012 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 454 by crashfrog
12-18-2012 1:22 PM


Re: Hey you Brits: Your GUN Crime is UP, not down
Crash wonders:
Nobody had any response so I thought we were in agreement.

Maybe we were preoccupied with staggering back in aghast?


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by crashfrog, posted 12-18-2012 1:22 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

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