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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(2)
Message 3827 of 5179 (765801)
08-06-2015 8:14 AM


Am I the only one to see a connection here? As soon as you talk about limiting the right to own a gun, guns lovers get overly defensive (close to paranoia if you ask me), the same attitude that prompt them to be armed in the first place.
Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(2)
Message 3828 of 5179 (765804)
08-06-2015 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 3825 by saab93f
08-06-2015 3:23 AM


Ted Cruz found a purpose for you : cooking bacon
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3825 by saab93f, posted 08-06-2015 3:23 AM saab93f has not yet responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(1)
Message 3855 of 5179 (765859)
08-07-2015 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3838 by New Cat's Eye
08-06-2015 6:25 PM


Alternatively you can learn self-defense in any good martial arts school like I did. They can even train you to defend against knives and guns. As a bonus, the student learns respect and confidence.

You said multiple times in this thread that guns are the best weapons right now. You seems to forget hand grenades, nuclear weapons, landmines. Why don't you bury landmines in front of your house? Warn the people you know and let the evil strangers die then harvest the ketchup. Yes that's how guns lovers sound to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3838 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-06-2015 6:25 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3856 by Jon, posted 08-07-2015 8:28 AM Bliyaal has responded
 Message 3859 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 10:09 AM Bliyaal has responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(1)
Message 3857 of 5179 (765865)
08-07-2015 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3856 by Jon
08-07-2015 8:28 AM


That was an impressively good answer to the question, thanks.
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Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3860 of 5179 (765873)
08-07-2015 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3859 by New Cat's Eye
08-07-2015 10:09 AM


Or maybe I can't.

Except for a heavy handicap, I can't see why you couldn't. In that case may I suggest a variety of non-lethal weapons like a taser gun or pepper spray?

Those are terrible weapons for self defense.

Landmines are very effective at preventing unwanted intruders in your house. Hand grenades or nuclear weapons are only for the purpose of dissuasion, exactly like your argued earlier.

And "arms" in the context of the 2nd does not mean any conceivable weapon.

Why not?

Seriously now... Don't you see that you're going in circles? You want a gun to defend yourself because people have guns because you want guns?

It's like the nuclear race during the cold war.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3859 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 10:09 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3865 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 11:24 AM Bliyaal has responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3872 of 5179 (765890)
08-07-2015 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3865 by New Cat's Eye
08-07-2015 11:24 AM


Besides physical limitations, a person could be too old, not have the time, or simply just lack the desire.

Too old goes into physical limitation. If you're too old to learn self-defense techniques, you're too old to manipulate a gun. Trust me, I've taught self-defense to women of almost all ages and they were all able to handle me at 6'1 215lbs no problem.

You don't have time to learn self-defense? Then you don't have time to train yourself with your gun, I don't want to see you anywhere close to one. That's dangerous thinking there.

Lack the desire? Just as I thought that your desire was to be able to defend yourself... By the way, you don't always have your gun but you always have your hands.

I also notice that you conveniently avoided the remark about non-lethal weapons.

Not after the squirrels and rabbits have taken them all out. Plus, I personally don't have any way of deciding who's hit.

Squirrels and rabbits? Engineers never found a way to prevent that in the last hundreds years... right. And are you really saying that unwanted deaths or injuries don't happen with guns? They happen all the time even when fired by trained people like policemen!

I'm not following you.

Your words :

The point is that We wouldn't have to be able to win the war to dissuade them from starting the first battle.

Dissuade the intruders by having grenades and atomic weapons.

For one, its a weapon than an individual can use. A personal weapon.

You really want to go there? RPGs, grenade, flamethrower. All personal weapons, all better than guns in many situations.

I wanted a gun because its the best self defense weapon available to me.

Ask yourself why it's a better self defense weapon. Isn't it because evil strangers have guns too? Why do they have guns? Probably because you have one!

Place yourself in the role of a robber. You enter a house with you gun in hand, just in case. You happen to come face to face with a guy living there. He has a gun, would you shoot? And if he hadn't one? Would you shoot too? The probability of deaths occuring is greater when guns are present on the scene!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3865 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 11:24 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3875 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 2:32 PM Bliyaal has responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3880 of 5179 (765899)
08-07-2015 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3875 by New Cat's Eye
08-07-2015 2:32 PM


Nah, you could fire a gun from a wheelchair.

If you're in that wheelchair because you're too old and unable to walk, I'm not sure I can trust you with a gun.

That's not true either. For one, you could be spending your free time training yourself with your gun and then not have time for self defense classes.

Too, the gun training class that I took was 16 hours, which I presume doesn't get you very far into a martial art.

Just so you know, self defense classes are available in your free time, what a bad excuse seriously!

And 16 hours is more than enough to be quite effective with your bare hands. After those 16 hours, use your "free time" to practice...

Well, since I have a gun then I don't have any desire to learn a martial art.

Remember, we weren't only talking about you unless you're too old, in a wheelchair and have a handicap.

And I have already considered and rejected your suggestion for non-lethal weapons, which didn't move the discussion past: "Regardless, its my decision to make in how I want to enable my own self-defense..."

You rejected it without a shred of an explanation, thanks.

All personal weapons, all better than guns in many situations.

I don't think so.

Enlightening! You should write books.

Fuck that, armed robbery carries a worse penalty than burglary.

Another great rebutal, you really went into the important parts of my argument.

Why are you evading question Cat Sci?

Let me dismiss all your arguments in your fashion : Admit it, you only like guns, that's all. And you know what? You have the natural right to like them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3875 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 2:32 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3882 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 3:06 PM Bliyaal has responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3884 of 5179 (765905)
08-07-2015 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 3882 by New Cat's Eye
08-07-2015 3:06 PM


Again the same pattern, what are you afraid of this time? You're afraid of evil strangers with guns so you want a gun. You're afraid of loosing some freedoms with a more responsable guns regulation. Now you're afraid that thinking might change your views?

USA : Land of the fear free!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3882 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-07-2015 3:06 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3966 of 5179 (766021)
08-10-2015 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3905 by Jon
08-07-2015 8:17 PM


Re: Natural rights and the constitution
Oh the irony!

Both you and Cat Sci evaded most of my points. Maybe you could start by giving the example if you want people to give you the same respect.


This message is a reply to:
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Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3993 of 5179 (766058)
08-11-2015 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3978 by Faith
08-10-2015 1:56 PM


Not according to the grammar of the wording I quoted, which clearly evokes a right already in existence before the writing of the Constitution.

As a woman I'm sure you're familiar with this :

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

The 19th amendment, granting voting right to women.

So let me ask you Faith, according to your grammar, does it clearly evokes a right already in existence before the writing of the Constitution?

Edited by Bliyaal, : Fixed a typo


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Replies to this message:
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Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3995 of 5179 (766062)
08-11-2015 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 3994 by Theodoric
08-11-2015 9:23 AM


You're absolutely right, I was just using her words to make it obvious that it didn't make sense. I don't understand why they're making a great deal about the way it's written when the meaning behind is clear. I guess that's their last resort since they won't answer anything else.
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 Message 3994 by Theodoric, posted 08-11-2015 9:23 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3996 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2015 11:02 AM Bliyaal has responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 3998 of 5179 (766072)
08-11-2015 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 3996 by Tangle
08-11-2015 11:02 AM


The concept of natural right is meaningless to me.

I could play a different word game too! If it's a natural right to have weapons, I would insist on the world natural. A gun doesn't occur naturally. I'm fine with them carrying sticks and stones if they want to as long as they found them on the ground.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3996 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2015 11:02 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 4000 of 5179 (766074)
08-11-2015 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 3997 by ICANT
08-11-2015 11:17 AM


Re: Amendment, Schlemendment
First, we're not talking about banning guns, only a better regulation, you know like with cars.

Second, how can you compare a gun and a car? One is designed to kill and the other is designed to transport. That should tell you something.

It's fun to compare the numbers of deaths but you should compare the number of deaths versus number of usages. How often do you drive a car and for how long? How often do you shoot with a gun?

Please try a better argument.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3997 by ICANT, posted 08-11-2015 11:17 AM ICANT has not yet responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(1)
Message 4002 of 5179 (766076)
08-11-2015 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3999 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2015 11:32 AM


So Tangle was right, a natural right is anything you want it to be.

It find it funny that now you're arguing that maybe sometimes mentality changes but when we're saying that the time has come to do some changes you fall back to what you think the original text says.

Edited by Bliyaal, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3999 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 11:32 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4004 by Theodoric, posted 08-11-2015 11:48 AM Bliyaal has not yet responded
 Message 4005 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 11:49 AM Bliyaal has responded

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 622 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


(1)
Message 4011 of 5179 (766089)
08-11-2015 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4005 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2015 11:49 AM


Your argument concerning the 19th amendment is that those who proposed it viewed the women right to vote as a natural right. Obviously their predecessors didn't agree because it was ratified only in 1920. So you're arguing that mentalities change and the constitution should reflect this... except for your love of guns.

So... in your words : lol wut?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4005 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 11:49 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4016 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2015 2:12 PM Bliyaal has responded

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