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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2045 of 5179 (693288)
03-13-2013 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2044 by Straggler
03-13-2013 3:51 PM


... strange? Harvard guys find guns correlate with killing people...
LOL
I would dispute finding that said murderers were still using swords.
There is a very strong correlation between killers using guns predominantly.
Let us not make them use battery acid or razors.
That would be cruel and unusual punishment before death for the victims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2044 by Straggler, posted 03-13-2013 3:51 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2046 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-13-2013 4:38 PM kofh2u has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2052 of 5179 (693299)
03-13-2013 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2046 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-13-2013 4:38 PM


Re: ... strange? Harvard guys find guns correlate with killing people...
LOL
Funny stories.
But you agree then, that the Harvard guys did find PREDOMINANTLY, that guns are the weapon of choice now, because they are, well, modern?
What politicians need to do is say the hard things which will make the Welfare Mothers mad.
Half of all murders are by people who were raised without the authority figure of a father living with them.
Guns, swords, nor batteries are killing people, the kids raised in crowded intercity welfare fatherless homes are,... are the killers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2046 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-13-2013 4:38 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2100 of 5179 (693397)
03-14-2013 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2098 by DevilsAdvocate
03-14-2013 9:45 PM


Re: You can Overthrow the Founders, just do it legally please
If the government wanted to round you up, you would stand no chance to resist.
What if the government wanted to take sides with the inner cities and the Unions, rising up against the rural and suburban Americans and simply "nationalizing" all property by force?
Weapons for resistance would be to those "haves" as was the minutemen to the independence day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2098 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 9:45 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2103 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-14-2013 10:18 PM kofh2u has not replied
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


(1)
Message 2149 of 5179 (693846)
03-20-2013 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 2146 by Straggler
03-20-2013 11:11 AM


Re: Evidenced Trends - Reneging and Evidence Denial
There are over 2000 posts in this thread. If you can’t find a single argument being put forward in favour of increased gun controls here then I would suggest you aren’t looking hard enough.
... or you are too stupid to see that gun control has enough regulation, all that is needed is strict enforcement and immediate consequences for those people selling guns illegally to the inner ity killers who have ALREADY been denied gun purchases.
In Philadelphia, FINALLY, a guy who admits to having been in the business of buying guns and selling them to others who do not register them was arrested and faces 30 years in jail.
Let's see if the court will actually give hi 30 years, since he has no former record and is pleading that he now sees the error of his ways.
I consider the people to be idiots who think taking away guns will stop these inner city killing and drug related shootings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2146 by Straggler, posted 03-20-2013 11:11 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2152 by Straggler, posted 03-20-2013 11:46 AM kofh2u has replied
 Message 2155 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-20-2013 12:54 PM kofh2u has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2150 of 5179 (693847)
03-20-2013 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2148 by Straggler
03-20-2013 11:24 AM


Re: I think I get your point...
Ineffective gun controls which have no effect on the prevalence of guns aren't going to reduce homicides.
Neither is ineffective ways of dealing with poverty, which actually is incentive for more fatherless Welfare babies who grow up to commit 70% of all violent crime and murders.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2148 by Straggler, posted 03-20-2013 11:24 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2151 by Eli, posted 03-20-2013 11:45 AM kofh2u has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2159 of 5179 (693915)
03-20-2013 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2151 by Eli
03-20-2013 11:45 AM


Re: I think I get your point...
Your chart implies nothing about welfare or single parents.
Right.
It does not.
I have posted charts that do confirm that further back.
This chart was intended to confirm with Stats that most killers are under 25 years old.
The other Charts I posted confirm that single inner city mothers on Welfare have these young kids who are killing people and most other anti-social behavior in America.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2151 by Eli, posted 03-20-2013 11:45 AM Eli has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2160 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2013 9:31 PM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 2163 by Eli, posted 03-21-2013 2:23 AM kofh2u has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2161 of 5179 (693921)
03-20-2013 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2152 by Straggler
03-20-2013 11:46 AM


common sense...
Do you accept that reducing the prevalence of guns will reduce the homicide rate?
Or not?
Of course if you could tak them away from the killers.
How would you do that and still preserve the gun as a useful 21st century invention that the constitution guarantees will beavailable to citizens?????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2152 by Straggler, posted 03-20-2013 11:46 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2162 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2013 9:41 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 2165 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2013 8:50 AM kofh2u has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2164 of 5179 (693972)
03-21-2013 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2162 by Theodoric
03-20-2013 9:41 PM


Re: common sense...
Were the founders time travelers or seers?
I think so...
They realized that power corrupts and that the time ALWAYS has come when a nation is temporarily open to fascism or the internal strife, as we see in the Middle East today.
Here in America, we have raised up whole inner cities in everyone of our major metropolises, where the criminal element has illegal unregistered guns, the prisons full of recruits being initiated in hate against the system, and courts and laws that ham string the enforcement of Law and Order.
The day may come when corporations will be called the enemy, and idle people already paid tribute of Welfare and other programs will just rise up against a defenseless suburban educated hard working tax paying Middle Class, as happened in Venezuela.
Our forefathers realized we all need to be Minutemen who are aware that this is a nation of the people, by the people,...
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2162 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2013 9:41 PM Theodoric has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2166 of 5179 (693976)
03-21-2013 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2163 by Eli
03-21-2013 2:23 AM


Re: I think I get your point...
KOFH:
This chart was intended to confirm with Stats that most killers are under 25 years old.
Eli:
Well, it failed.
The average age of an adult offender convicted of homicide is 35 years.
...most killers...
The average age is immaterial to the point made, that MORE killings are caused by people under age 25 than any other category on the chart.
The Rate of homicides by people between 17 and 25 is over double the rate for all the other people in every other category of Age Classification.
The FACTS in America are that 70% of all these killers, old and young, have been raised fatherless, by Single Mothers most supported by Welfare and any other way they can make a buck while sitting on their stoop in the inner city.
It is Truth like this which the prophets of old used to predict the future, since they were well aware of stubborn hard heads who had ears, but would NEVER admit to these observations nor see what was coming, as they made light of the FACTS, and ignore the unavoidable consequences that would come, sooner or later.
Welfare now costs America $1 Trillion annually, and the Food Stamp program is being enlarged and advertised more widely.
The Welfare System pays to create more fatherless families of potential criminals and anti-social people as the urban areas push responsible people out of the mainstream, and allow Democratic politicians to buy more power with every election using tax payer money to feed the criminal element.
The hand writing is on the wall, Y, V, H, H.
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2163 by Eli, posted 03-21-2013 2:23 AM Eli has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2174 by Eli, posted 03-21-2013 11:01 AM kofh2u has not replied
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2167 of 5179 (693981)
03-21-2013 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2165 by Straggler
03-21-2013 8:50 AM


Re: common sense...
The lower the prevalence of guns the less killers there will be.
Your assumption is false.
The Murder rate has been declining for centuries though the number of guns has grown enormously at the same time.
And,... today when guns of all kinds have been available, the Murder Rate since 1999 has fallen to half the numbers from 1960-1995.
The FALL and decline of Murder in America, while gun ownership has reached a high is the result of ABORTIONS which cut the number of fatherless Welfare babies born into the inner city since 1973.
Donohue and Levitt study
Main article: The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime
Steven Levitt of the University of Chicago and John Donohue of Yale University revived discussion of this claim with their 2001 paper "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime". Donohue and Levitt point to the fact that males aged 18 to 24 are most likely to commit crimes. Data indicates that crime in the United States started to decline in 1992. Donohue and Levitt suggest that the absence of unwanted children, following legalization in 1973, led to a reduction in crime 18 years later, starting in 1992 and dropping sharply in 1995. These would have been the peak crime-committing years of the unborn children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2165 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2013 8:50 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2168 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2013 9:29 AM kofh2u has replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2170 of 5179 (693996)
03-21-2013 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 2168 by Straggler
03-21-2013 9:29 AM


Re: common sense...
Kof writes:
The FACTS in America are that 70% of all these killers, old and young, have been raised fatherless, by Single Mothers most supported by Welfare and any other way they can make a buck while sitting on their stoop in the inner city.
Yet as you have yourself pointed out before such programmes there were many many more murderers......
Why was that?
Hang on to those university professor who conclude that guns kill people, NOT ythe kids of Single Eelfare Mothers crammed together with their own kind, and all hanging out in the same criminal neighborhoods and schools.
The REASON the murder Rate fell after Roe Vs Wade (1972) is that ABORTIONS reduced the number of fatherless killers we were growing in the country during the next 20 years:
The effect of legalized abortion on crime (sometimes referred to as the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis) is the theory that legal abortion reduces crime.
The Chart CLEARLY shows that AFTER Johnson's WELFARE, but BEFORE abortions, pre-1972, the Murder Rate had increased as their kids grew up between 1970 and 1990.
The abortions between 1972 and 1995 shows the Murder Rate drop for those kids who had grown up by 1995 through 2010:
You seem unclear on this chart or else it is YOU who the denier.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2168 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2013 9:29 AM Straggler has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2171 of 5179 (693997)
03-21-2013 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 2168 by Straggler
03-21-2013 9:29 AM


Re: common sense...
Kof writes:
The Murder rate has been declining for centuries though the number of guns has grown enormously at the same time.
Strngle:
Fortunately gun prevalence isn't the only contributory factor. Fortunately development of Western societies over the centuries (developments like not letting people starve, things like the welfare safety net) have greatly alleviated many of the things that make societies most violent.
What part of "the murder rate hasg one down since 1200AD don't YOu understand???
And the Murder Rate is the lowest, ever, in this Modern Age where guns are everywhere?
THAT includes the FACT that the Murder Rate is HALF the number it was between 1965-1995, before legalized abortions elimiate what would have beome the criminal element of twice the size.
////
Donohue and Levitt study
Main article: The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime
Steven Levitt of the University of Chicago and John Donohue of Yale University revived discussion of this claim with their 2001 paper "The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime". Donohue and Levitt point to the fact that males aged 18 to 24 are most likely to commit crimes. Data indicates that crime in the United States started to decline in 1992. Donohue and Levitt suggest that the absence of unwanted children, following legalization in 1973, led to a reduction in crime 18 years later, starting in 1992 and dropping sharply in 1995. These would have been the peak crime-committing years of the unborn children.
What abou these University Professors?????
You only read those who agree with you???
Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2168 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2013 9:29 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2172 of 5179 (694000)
03-21-2013 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2168 by Straggler
03-21-2013 9:29 AM


Re: common sense...
Why am I not suprised?
Why?
Because you are a liberal who feeds into and spins out the Politically Corret nonsense which is then endorses by the Democratic candidtates so as to get your vote.
Look at how they "solve" all the problems.
They avoid condemining the people reponsible, and they act like a mither who belie taking away the toy is better than smacking the hand of their little darlings:
.
.
.
.
.
The Democrat solution for the Gun killings is to do away with the Guns.
The Democrat solution for the Drug problem is to do away with the Drug Laws.
The Democrat solution for the teenage pregnancies is to do away with the babies.
The Democrat solution for the Economic recession is to place a Tax on successful business.
The Democratic solution for Unemployment is to extend the Unemployment Checks.
The Democrat solution for bank insolvency is to do away with the bankruptcy because they are too big to fail.
The Democrat solution for keeping Government Bond rates low is to buy their own bonds.
The Democrat solution for War is to do away with the military deterrent.
The Democrat solution for poverty is to give them other people’s money.
The Democrat solution for Conservative Laws is to assign Liberal judges.
The Democrat solution for fat kids is to investigate Fast Food restaurants.
The Democrat solution for the school bully is to arrest teachers for grabbing them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2168 by Straggler, posted 03-21-2013 9:29 AM Straggler has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2176 of 5179 (694030)
03-21-2013 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2013 12:40 PM


Re: common sense...
And what is the point you are trying to make with this statistic? I have to agree with Straggler on the fact that there are far more variables than you are taking into account when claiming this is all due to single mothers.
?
You must mean that youagree with me, now that strangler retracts the argument that guns kill people, since guns have dramatically increased while for centuries, killings have gone straight down.
Now Strangler is ALSO saying, "maybe there is more to this than guns", and that "there are far more variables to be taking into account."
I am saying that you and Strangler need take into acount that 70% of all killers were raised by a Single Mother.
I am posting the Stats which show that when abortions rose and eliminated many many potential Single Mothers, the murder rate feel dramatically.
I am saying you and Strangler do a disservice to America by avoiding the hard issue of changing Welfare so that it encourages fathers to raise kids with their mother.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 12:40 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2177 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 1:09 PM kofh2u has not replied
 Message 2182 by Straggler, posted 03-22-2013 8:35 AM kofh2u has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3848 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 2178 of 5179 (694056)
03-21-2013 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
03-21-2013 12:40 PM


Re: common sense...
Stop it!! Stop your racist, inner city fatherless children cause all crime blather.
Not "all."
Fatherless kids raised by Sigel Mithers, whether black or white, commit 70% of all crime whether you like that statistic or not.
The inner cities of America are filled with Black single women raising sons that shoot eachother as is the case, whether you like that or not.
The Black community represents 10% of the population but is responsible for 50% of all murders.
FACTS are not racist.
But Political Correctness like yours is a killer that would hide the trith, ban the guns, and tolerate Welfare the way it now works, destroying the Black Family.
IT IS YOU and those like you who hurt the Black community by pretending the Truth is clear here.
These young people kill, not the illegal guns they manage to get.
NOTE THE MURDERS IN THE INNER CITY ARE 600 COMPARED TO 100 FOR SUBURBAN WHITE COMMUNITIES

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2175 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 03-21-2013 12:40 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
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