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Author
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Topic: Gun Control Again
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4863 of 5179 (780706)
03-19-2016 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 4861 by Percy
03-18-2016 1:44 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: He used the position of chancellor (and the burning of the Reichstag) to consolidate further power.
And he could "use his position" because the people tacitly agreed to what he was doing - i.e. they didn't object.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4861 by Percy, posted 03-18-2016 1:44 PM | | Percy has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Dr Adequate writes: Because they amended the constitution.
An amendment to the constitution that allowed them to ignore the constitution. The constitution didn't stop them from doing that, which is what I've been saying. The people could have hypothetically stopped them from doing it but they didn't.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4869 of 5179 (780768)
03-20-2016 2:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 4865 by Percy
03-19-2016 4:08 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: I guess it doesn't matter if you want to continue believing something wrong about German history....
If you want to believe that Hitler forced himself on the German people, feel free.
Percy writes: ... people might conclude that your views are as mistaken as your history.
I'll leave it to the people to decide. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4865 by Percy, posted 03-19-2016 4:08 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4870 of 5179 (780769)
03-20-2016 2:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 4867 by NoNukes
03-19-2016 7:25 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
NoNukes writes: I am also sure that there are situations where constitutional provisions were ignored and a leader simply made up his own rules contrary to what the constitution says.
We're talking about a case in which the US Supreme Court is making up its own rules contrary to what the constitution says.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4867 by NoNukes, posted 03-19-2016 7:25 PM | | NoNukes has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4872 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2016 3:53 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4871 of 5179 (780770)
03-20-2016 2:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 4868 by Percy
03-20-2016 11:11 AM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
PPercy writes: I just wanted to make clear that Hitler's rise to power was not tacitly accepted by the German people.
If not Hitler, then whom? The German people tacitly, if not downright vociferously, wanted a dictator. It was easy to throw out a constitution that they hated.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4868 by Percy, posted 03-20-2016 11:11 AM | | Percy has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4875 of 5179 (780789)
03-21-2016 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 4873 by Percy
03-20-2016 9:30 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: As I said in my previous message, Hitler's party only got 44% of the popular vote.
In Canada, few governments get much more than 40% of the popular vote.
Percy writes: In answer to your question, "If not Hitler, then whom," if some party other than the Nazi's were able to achieved a majority or form a majority coalition, perhaps the Social Democrats, then they would have chosen the next chancellor from among their own ranks.
The point of the question was that the German people were perfectly willing to have somebody suspend the constitution. They didn't care who did it as long as somebody did it. With or without a constitution, it's the people who constrain the government.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4873 by Percy, posted 03-20-2016 9:30 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4876 of 5179 (780790)
03-21-2016 12:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 4874 by Percy
03-21-2016 8:29 AM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: Though I've read extensively about WWII, I've never found any indication that Germans hated their constitution.
A quick Google gives a couple of indications:
quote:
However not enough people supported this reasonable Republic, the first democratic state in German history. link
quote:
The lack of support from the people due to the fear of communism and their attitude towards the socialists led them to support Hitler.... link
Percy writes: ... your statement wasn't based on historical knowledge anyway.
I'm glad you can tell at a distance what my statements are based on.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4874 by Percy, posted 03-21-2016 8:29 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4877 by Percy, posted 03-21-2016 2:36 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4881 of 5179 (780848)
03-24-2016 11:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 4877 by Percy
03-21-2016 2:36 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: So with his 40% of the vote, would you say that "hardly anyone objected" to Justin Trudeau's becoming Prime Minister or any of his actions since?
If a bunch of us order pizza and the topping I wanted is voted down, no, I wouldn't say I objected to the resulting pizza.
Percy writes: Hitler never suspended the German constitution.
He didn't have to. He just ignored the parts he didn't like - just like American governments do with the Second Amendment.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4877 by Percy, posted 03-21-2016 2:36 PM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4882 by Percy, posted 03-24-2016 5:57 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4893 of 5179 (780892)
03-26-2016 11:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 4882 by Percy
03-24-2016 5:57 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: So when Justin Trudeau honored the Canadian arms deal with Saudi Arabia and 48% of polled Canadians called it a bad decision, you feel it would be accurate to characterize that as "hardly anyone objected," and "The Canadian people tacitly, if not downright vociferously, wanted to honor the Saudi Arabian arms deal"?
That's a different situation. It's a single issue. There was very little objection to the decision, so yes, the Canadian people did and do tacitly agree. They might be more vociferous if he, for example, invaded Russia.
Percy writes: I was just responding to where you said, "The German people were perfectly willing to have somebody suspend the constitution," which isn't true since the constitution was never suspended by Hitler (abused, yes - suspended, no)...
Whether or not Hitler actually suspended the constitution is irrelevant. My point is that the people were ready to accept it if he did.
Percy writes: ... since the German people never indicated by any vote or plebiscite any willingness to have the constitution suspended.
They indicated their willingness by voting for him again and again - knowing full well what his intentions were - until there was no choice but to make him chancellor.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4882 by Percy, posted 03-24-2016 5:57 PM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 4895 by Percy, posted 03-26-2016 3:53 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Hyroglyphx writes: Perhaps you really mean to say that it is the People that hold them accountable...
Bingo.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4900 of 5179 (780976)
03-29-2016 11:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 4895 by Percy
03-26-2016 3:53 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: You're again either ignoring history or making up your own word definitions.
You're just nitpicking what should have been a fairly obvious point: No constitution stopped Hitler from doing exactly what he wanted to do. The parallel is equally obvious: The US constitution will have no effect on gun control unless the people want it to.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4895 by Percy, posted 03-26-2016 3:53 PM | | Percy has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4904 of 5179 (781041)
03-30-2016 11:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 4902 by NoNukes
03-29-2016 8:30 PM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
NoNukes writes: And yet perhaps your point is of somewhat limited value.
It was never intended to be of unlimited value.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4902 by NoNukes, posted 03-29-2016 8:30 PM | | NoNukes has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4905 of 5179 (781043)
03-30-2016 11:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 4903 by Percy
03-30-2016 8:20 AM
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Re: Responsible Rat-Poison Owner Accidentally Rat-Poisons Six People In Isolated Incident
Percy writes: Polls tell us that most people in the US do want better gun control....
I'm reminded of the man whose daughter was shot a few months ago. He went on national TV to denounce gun proliferation. Then he added that now he'd probably have to buy a gun because of his newfound notoriety. People don't want gun control for themselves. We already have gun control for ourselves - just don't buy a gun. What people want is gun control for the other guys: the criminals, the whackos, the irresponsible idiots who shoot their own children. The problem is the attitude that Americans have toward guns, the attitude that you can use a gun to protect yourself. As long as that attitude prevails, you will never have effective gun control.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4903 by Percy, posted 03-30-2016 8:20 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 4965 of 5179 (787122)
07-04-2016 12:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 4960 by Coyote
07-03-2016 10:17 PM
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Re: 113 and counting
Coyote writes: There is no such thing as dangerous weapons, only dangerous people.
People who think they need guns are inherently dangerous.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4960 by Coyote, posted 07-03-2016 10:17 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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A child may be several years to young to drive, or vote, or drink a beer, but if you get him a lethal weapon for Christmas he'll suddenly become Responsible.
Dragnet: A Gun for Christmas. Remember when TV cops didn't shoot somebody in every episode?
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