Summations Only

The continued go-to comparison of the gun nuts. Chicago!You can ban all guns in violent, inner cities, where the ENTIRE system has failed the public, and of course there will still be violence.There are plenty of places where strict gun laws have helped, along with better police presense and stronger community support, that has dramatically reduced gun violence.I've presented NY in this thread before as one of those cities, that stepped up their police force and banned guns/added strict gun laws. Where gun violence has drastically reduced.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

Not really. It could just be the way it was enforced, or rather, more than likely NOT enforced. People here complain about everything just like in every other city.Criminals are involved in our political system, I'm sure.Our police presense is good, but I'm sure many would like more of a presense.Education is rather good, but certainly not the best. The public schools have all the same issues as other places.There are black people here, yes.- Oni

He probably counts ALL Puerto Ricans and Dominicans as blacks too. Even the white ones.- Oni

They might also want to prevent mentally ill people from getting guns. None of the shooters since Virginia Tech (that I can remember) have been "bad" people. From what all the evidence points to, they were good people. Some however, like the V Tech guy and the Newtown guy had serious mental issues."Bad" guys, like criminals trying to rob people, aren't usually in the business of shooting up malls and elementary schools.Also, none of them have been black.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

That would still not help in cases where the person is quite ill but hasn't been incarcerated. Like for example with the V Tech guy. My point was in response to you addressing what each individual State should do. The current laws that are trying to be implemented, in some States, which I feel should be nationwide as Xong pointed out, are in direct response to some of the latest shootings. I wasn't talking about laws that "prevent crazy people from shooting up schools". I was talking about laws that prevent crazy people from getting guns. There is a clear difference there.A nationwide background check might be such a law that could help. Depending on how much is actually checked up on about the individual buying the gun. If it includes records of mental institutes or something like that, it would help. Also, everyone who registers as a gun owner goes through a yearly update check-up to see if anything new pops up about the person. Just because you're not crazy today doesn't mean you can't be crazy tomorrow. He was before V Tech, which I specifically used that event as my mark because of the DC sniper. But we all know what influenced him... Islam!- Oni

I think it would help if the current system of excluding the mentally ill was changed to a better system.The current system:

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Only a small fraction of people with mental illness meet the federal standards for inclusion in the gun database. Those standards include a court ruling of insanity. Most, however, enter the database after they have been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital. Further, most people who are involuntarily hospitalized typically under a 72-hour hold for observation aren't included in the database, because they cases never received a formal mental health evaluation by a judge.

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The result is a system that misses many people who are at risk of harming themselves or others, while it sweeps in thousands of others who are no longer dangerous or never were in the first place.

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This was from the LA TimesCalifornia has pretty strict background checks and a higher than most standard for the mentally ill. The problem? Neighboring states do not.Result:

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In 2006, former postal worker Jennifer Sanmarco returned to her old post office in Goleta and shot six people, then killed herself. Sanmarco had spent three days in a Ventura hospital after a history of bizarre and paranoid behavior and couldn't legally buy a gun in California.

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But she had no trouble passing a background check when she bought her gun at a New Mexico pawn shop.

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So there is one case where a nationwide, all states included, backgound check into the mentally ill would have prevented 6 people from getting shot.As it stands now, our current system of background checks is shit, and not all states have the same criteria. Not all states even report everything to the NICS. There's no accountability, no one over seeing things, and it's left to fail.So things can definitely be done a lot better, and that's just the first step.- Oni

Umm, a nationwide system. Maybe modeled around Cali's laws for the mentally ill. Or NY's.Something better than the current one.- Oni

Why are you being all cunty? I clearly wrote making it a nationwide law and I said we can model it after Cali's laws or NY's.That wasn't a blanket "Let's make them better" reply. I gave you a tangible model we can use and I added that it be nationwide.Hoooray!- Oni

I have no fucking clue what you're talking about brotha. I did provide a link from the LA Times that covered Cali's excellent mental illness laws as it relates to gun control. So there is a link.It's a pretty good model to use as a nationwide law. Of course you've never heard of this because I just presented it as an idea.Take a moment and breathe a bit. Read calmly, then reply.- Oni

You did? That's great. Why though?- Oni

Let's say you know that for a fact. Which you don't. But let's say you do. If law makers were able to work out all those issues so that it was effective, would you be in favor of it? I don't know what you mean by that. If you mean, like you posted earlier, that they provide better care for the mentally ill then I agree. But that doesn't help because we are already talking about people who have had mental health care.Also, just providing more care doesn't mean they will get the care. You can't force them to in many cases. So there's that to contend with also.- Oni

You think they can't already do that? All guns can currently be controlled by radio signals.- Oni