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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
MrHambre asks:
So what's your claim here? That Cheney and his cronies knew what was going to happen on 9/11? I prefer to think of it as "enabling" the Saudis to pull it off at some date, but not knowing when. It is curious that once all airplanes were grounded, the only flight allowed was to carry the Saudis out of the USA back to their country. And for Condoleeza Rice to claim that no one could have imagined it while the Pentagon itself was rehearsing such a scenario - that took a lot of cheek.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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MrHambre Member (Idle past 1418 days) Posts: 1495 From: Framingham, MA, USA Joined:
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xongsmith writes:
I admit that I don't consider trutherism to be anything more than an online shell game: the truther baits his unwary opponent into jumping through hoops for him and providing context for weird factoids, then mocks the opponent's credulity and moves onto the next factoid. the Pentagon itself was rehearsing such a scenario Anyone who thinks that our white overlords in the government-military-industrial complex control every facet of human endeavor should have been disabused of that notion emphatically on the morning of 9/11. It takes a superhuman act of denial to believe that our government, military, and intelligence agencies only conspired to make it look like they were completely helpless and ineffective during the terrorist attack (as well as in the years preceding it), and no one had qualms whatsoever about sticking to that story. Let's believe anything!
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
"Overthrowing" the government isn't so much the concern as self-defense, against whatever form of tyranny presents itself. What tyranny areyou refering to?The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8546 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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What tyranny are you referring to? Christians baking cakes.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I was asleep and heard a noise. I assumed it was a home invader so I fired my gun and killed my teenage brother. FL, 6/5
My brother damaged a tree in my yard, so I shot at him. MN, 6/6 Some passengers got out of my Uber car and threw rocks at it, so I shot at them. IL, 6/6 A woman asked me for advice about getting a gun and a concealed carry permit. I took out my handgun to show it to her and accidentally shot her in the leg. OH, 6/6 My wife was mocking me, so I shot my entire family. MT, 6/7 I wondered what it felt like to get shot in the foot, so I tried it. CO, 6/10 I got into an argument with someone outside the church where I am the pastor. I pulled out my gun and shot at the unarmed man and missed. The bullet hit and killed my own teenage son. CA, (6/12) I was losing a custody battle due to my prior arrest record, so I took out my frustration by firing 40 rounds at the Dallas Police headquarters. TX, 6/13 A woman reported me for sexual harassment, so I shot her to death in the mall where we both worked. IA, 6/13 I was asked to leave a shooting/camping club, which made me angry, so I came back with two guns and shot two people dead. OH, 6/14 I was "tired of going to court" to fight my ex-wife for custody, so I shot her to death in front of our 7-year-old daughter. NJ, 6/16 I hate black people, so I went to a church and shot nine of them dead. SC, 6/17 A man was arguing with me about the Golden State Warriors, so I shot him. (Yes, I was sober.) CA, 6/17 My neighbor was arguing with me about some personal items, so I shot him. TX, 6/18 A dog scared me, so I shot at it, missed, and my bullet hit a four-year-old child. OH, 6/19 My boyfriend let me play with his gun. It was fun until I unintentionally shot him in the face. LA, 6/18 My sister was arguing with me about clothes, so I shot her. MI, 6/19 I was showing my wife how to use a gun when I shot myself in the hand. IN, 6/20 A man was walking his dog and it tried to poop in my son’s yard, so I shot him. FL, 6/21 My dog got into a fight with another dog, and people in the neighborhood tried to break it up. I pulled out my gun and started shooting people, including a woman and a two-year-old child. MI, 6/21 I thought I heard an intruder, so I shot my girlfriend. AR, 6/22 My friend’s car broke down so he called me for help. I met him on the side of the highway and we got into an argument, so I shot him. TX, 6/23 My employee was unhappy with what I was paying him, so I shot him. MO, 6/26 --- And not one instance of anyone overthrowing a tyranny. Damn. (N.B: I didn't make the list, someone posted it on facebook. I'm guessing the original source would be the fb page of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.) Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8546 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
You got all the pretty stories for your list. Now add in Chicago with 27 of 30 days of fatal shootings just in June.
"... the right of those people who are really stupid, or plenty pissed off, or both, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
And not one instance of anyone overthrowing a tyranny. Damn. Are you kiddin' me Doc? A man fires 40 rounds at police headquarters? A couple more men react to custody battles going badly, and yet another man tries to start a race war by killing 9 black people? Granted, none of this bloodshed actually defeated any tyrants, but how about some credit for tilting at the windmills here? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1309 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: |
The idea of disarming the good guys because of so many bad guys isn't going to fly, however.
Well then, until you can accurately and reliably tell the difference between "good" and "bad" guys before they go postal, you will continue to have massacres. Edited by Heathen, : No reason given. Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Today's NYT reports the sad case of a young man shot in the back and paralyzed as he drove away from an apartment complex security guard: ‘Illegal Activity’ Fine Print Leaves Some Insured, but Uncovered. He later died because he was denied medical insurance coverage, which is extremely sad and disturbing in itself, but the insurance coverage issues are not relevant to this thread.
The backstory of the article is what's relevant. Oklahoma has a "stand your ground" law, and because the security guard was (he claimed) struck by the car as it backed out of the parking space, it was ruled that he was justified in firing into the car because he thought his life was in danger, even though the car was by then speeding away. Compounding the puzzlement of this ruling, the security guard had marijuana on his person and in his system. What was the young man's crime? He wasn't charged with one. Sympathy over the tragedy would likely have prevented charges being brought even had the young man been guilty of a crime such as theft or using drugs, but it seems that at most he ignored a security guard's instructions (not a crime) and left the scene of an accident (allegedly). --Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The backstory of the article is what's relevant. Oklahoma has a "stand your ground" law, and because the security guard was (he claimed) struck by the car as it backed out of the parking space, it was ruled that he was justified in firing into the car because he thought his life was in danger, even though the car was by then speeding away. Compounding the puzzlement of this ruling, the security guard had marijuana on his person and in his system. I find the insurance issues to be more interesting, but as you say they are not the topic. With regard to standing your ground, let's recall that such laws are not the only way that a district attorney might decide that a shooting is justified. It is also possible to use pure self defense rules. I would think that the Oklahoma decision not to prosecute would be unsurprising in many jurisdictions. There was an earlier case in Oklahoma involving a drug store robbery. The druggist on duty shot one (unarmed) robber in the head, chased another robber down the street firing at him. The druggist returned to the store, saw that the first perp was still breathing. So he got a second gun out of a drawer and plugged the perp five more times killing him. The killing was caught on security video and the druggist was eventually convicted of first degree murder. But some of the legislators who had enacted the stand your ground law insisted that the law was intended to protect the druggist.
Oklahoma City pharmacist Jerome Ersland found guilty of murder in killing of suspect - CBS News This is a reasonably fair summary from a person supportive of the shooter. American Handgunner Page not found - American Handgunner Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5
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- xongsmith, 5.7d
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
USA Today has released a brief report on mass killings in America: Behind the Bloodshed: The Untold Story of American's Mass Killings
They followed the FBI definition of a mass killing as four victims or more. Mass killings occur about every two weeks. Check out the diagram titled "A Timeline of U.S. Mass Killings" around page 4 or so. The size of the red dot is proportional to the number of victims. Hover over the dot for specifics. Family members are most often the victims. Guns are by far the most common weapon, and most are handguns. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I just happened to turn on BBC World News for a couple minutes before dinner and heard this gem about the Louisiana theater shooting:
"They are scenes with which Americans are painfully familiar, a mass shooting inflicted on yet another community." Europe just doesn't have a mass volume of mass shootings. --Percy
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Europe just doesn't have a mass volume of mass shootings. Yes, but Europe is ruled by King George III. Mass shootings are the price we pay for liberty.
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Timothy Egan writes in his editorial Guns and the Two Americas in today's NYT:
quote: --Percy
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