Off Topic Posts aka Rabbit Trail Thread - Mostly YEC Geology

No differences, that is, except for the myriad differences in fossil content, radioisotope age, and stuff like that all the way up the stack. But that's all not eyewitnessed, right? Where the original writing down of Genesis is on videotape somewhere?

Fossils aren't "visible?"You'd better tell all the palaeontologists since about 1820 about that. They would be startled.The trilobites might even be startled.

Yup. If they were the same age, you would see crabs fossilized in the same rocks as trilobites, and eurypterids in the same rocks as sea bass. But you never do. Never. Not ever.

Can you truly not see, Faith, that this is precisely the sort of argument that you are using? Is it utterly impossible for you to consider that it is Faith that could be wrong about something in this discussion, instead of an apostate atheist evolutionist? You have been asking us to examine ourselves and see if we could be wrong. Why can't that request apply to you?

They might "look the same age" to you, but the plain fact that there are no crabs fossilized in trilobite-bearing Devonian rocks, and no ray-finned fish in eurypterid-bearing Ordovician ones should give you a hint that there are, in fact, different ages involved. Even the fossil record of trilobites, with many, many forms never co-occuring with each other, ought to give you that hint.

More microorganisms than either animals or plants. One can find components in oils that are only made by, say, cyanobacteria. And how, exactly, do you know that "The pre-Flood world was LOADED with vegetable matter?" Did you observe it? Does the Book of Genesis document it? Or did you just make that part up, like the bit you made up about lower strata tilting while leaving upper strata undisturbed, and having their (the lower ones') north halves disappear?

And sorted every single crab and trilobite into separate sets of rocks. And sorted every eurypterid and ray-finned fish into separate sets of rocks. And sorted every Seymouria and muskrat into separate sets of rocks. And sorted every dinosaur and deer into sep...you get my drift?
Evidence, Faith. It ain't on your side.

How did it do that, Faith?

Faith:Say you have a square slab, half a mile thick, of greywacke that measures 100 miles on a side. It is overlain by a slab of sandstone that is the same size. It is underlain by whatever kind of schist you want down there. All slabs are of the precise softness/mushiness/rigidity that your thought experiment calls for.The greywacke gets tilted, south edge down and north edge up, while the "balancing of forces" keeps the sandstone horizontal. The stack ends up with the north edge of the now-tilted greywacke exactly twelve miles from the northern edge of our big square, ready for a three-mile-wide canyon to be carved a mile deep by "runoff" right along that line. On north of the twelve-mile line, the schist is now against the sandstone, correct?A canyon results which shows tilted greywacke beneath tilted sandstone, very like the Grand Canyon of the Colorado. Where, though, did the greywacke go that started out in that 100 mile X 12 mile X half mile slab along the north edge of our starting stack? Did it erode away, while under a 2640-foot-thick slab of not-quite-set sandstone which was undisturbed by that process?Can you answer? Will you, if you can?

Thank you, Doc, that's it. Let North = right side of the bottom frame, and you have what I was describing - which is what I take to be what Faith has been describing for pages now.Where did the rock from the top of the tilted strata go? Forget my canyon in my description above - it was only the "window" to look at the stack of rocks. How did all that rock get out of there, Faith? Folded, abraded, whatever- where is it now?ABE: I dropped enough acid once about 45 years ago to see cars turning into running tigers and lions, but not to see much geology at all.Edited by Coragyps, : No reason given.

When did they erode away? After the upper layers were in place? That's when they folded, correct?

Where to even start....?I'll start this one tiniest of tidbits a few miles west of Rayne, Louisiana at a gas well named the Monceaux #1. I spent some several hours sitting on, and designing treatments for, this well about 25 years ago. It was a gas well that, when newly drilled, produced about 25,000,000 cubic feet of natural gas every day. When I learned of it, it was producing about 2000 barrels of salt water per day, instead, and the owners wanted some help with that....What does this have to do with oil or gas being "old?" In this case, it has to do with the Monceaux #1 being drilled to a depth (nearly 3 miles) so that the minute shells of a foraminiferan name Bolivina mexicana came up with the drilled-up rock in the target zone - abundant gas had been found in that part of the state particularly in sandstone that carried "Bol mex" shells. Many other sandstones and shales exist both above and below this Bol Mex zone, and they are identified largely by which particular foram fossils are present in them. Only a narrow band of depths preserves B. mexicana - a couple of dozen different species of Bolivina or different genera of forams are characteristic of other sands up and down this stack.These forams are all tiny little shells, each named species different in shape - how skinny, how coiled, how decorated. Geologists interpret these differences, and the segregation of the different shapes, as being due to them living through a sequence in time and (I hate to say it) being related to each other by descent with modification, AKA evolution. Geologists infer that the Mississippi River kept bringing clay, silt, and sand down to the Gulf of Mexico over a Very Long Time, and that it got deposited near the mouth of the river just about like it does today. Forams grew merrily there in the seawater and sank, when they died, along with the river sediments.In a young-earth/Fludde scenario, a hypothetical YEC Geologist would need to come up with a mechanism to deposit many different shells in sands that otherwise looked pretty much all the same. No mixing of shells, now, beyond the stratum that one is predominant in. Our YEC-G would need to account for the beautiful preservation of many of these delicate, spiny little critters if he/she is going to insist that a big Flood carried them there and sorted them by appearance.I'm a chemist that's been in the oil bidness for over 30 years now. I'm not a geologist. But don't get me started on how I know oil is "old", Faith. I can cover you up with evidence for that.

The relevance of location in the Bol mex zone is that, in that area, the really good gas reservoirs occur in a vertical location where that particular foram is found. That one species is isolated to one window in time in an otherwise poorly time-stamped stack of riverborne sediments. If you, Faith, or your designated YEC geologist can find me a way to change species of floating-in-the-sea critters each week or day of a year-long flood, then I might listen. Remember, they can't wash from very far - they break easy.When you get that solution, let's go back to eurypterids and crabs, and why they never are found in the same rock. Or we can talk about how to grow a reef, now full of oil, that's 1000 feet thick and 6000 feet below ground. And a hundred miles long. Can you do that during a year-long flood?