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Author Topic:   Have You Ever Read Ephesians?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 144 of 383 (689770)
02-04-2013 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by jaywill
02-04-2013 11:11 AM


Re: The NT and Women ?
Interestingly, he credits the better treatment of women as a major cause to the wide spread growth of Christianity.
Not sure why his opinions matter. Besides everything is relative. Pagan religions could be very brutal. Also, this just shows that early Christianity was not as patriarchal in its beginnings as it evolved to be. This is not news we know early christianity allowed women to have prominent positions. That changed in the early centuries.
Dr. Rodney Stark is a renown sociologist of religion. I think he is an atheist.
I am not sure how renowned he is but he is no atheist. This is from the link you posted. Yes we can read.
quote:
In a 2007 interview, after accepting an appointment at Baylor University, Stark indicated that his self-understanding had changed and that he could now be described as an "independent Christian." In this interview Stark recollects that he has "always been a cultural Christian" understood by him as having "been strongly committed to Western Civilization." Of his previous positions he wrote: "I was never an atheist, but I probably could have been best described as an agnostic."

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by jaywill, posted 02-04-2013 11:11 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Jazzns, posted 02-04-2013 5:51 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 148 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 9:00 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 149 of 383 (689898)
02-06-2013 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by jaywill
02-06-2013 9:00 AM


Re: The NT and Women ?
Well if you read the article you linked to maybe you wouldn't be so confused.
It clearly shows a quote from him that is a direct contradiction to your thoughts.
Now you say his opinion should not matter.
Do not misrepresent what I actually said. That is not good form.
I asked.
Theodoric writes:
Not sure why his opinions matter.
In other words tell my why his opinion matters.
I anticipate that this means Rodney Stark's opinion doesn't matter that much but of course Theodoric's opinion does.
Have I positioned myself as an authority? Show me why I should accept this guy as some sort of authority?
I have already shown you why you are giving his quote much more relevance than it deserves. In other words you are cherry picking something to shoehorn it in as support for your argument.
Why don't you address the substance my post instead of whining about my style?
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 9:00 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 10:01 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 151 of 383 (689902)
02-06-2013 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by jaywill
02-06-2013 10:01 AM


Re: The NT and Women ?
But that does not support your argument. because it is a fact that the early church was much more inclusive of women than the Christianity we have today. Using his argument is nothing more than a dodge. The Christianity he is talking about does not exist today and has not existed for over 1800 years.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 10:01 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 10:30 AM Theodoric has replied
 Message 166 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 4:51 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 154 of 383 (689905)
02-06-2013 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by jaywill
02-06-2013 10:30 AM


Re: The NT and Women ?
When was the last time you sat among Christians in thier congregation "today" to observe how the sisters were treated ?
Are you freaking serious?
How many churches allow the ordination of women? The Catholic church, nuff said. Who is behind the current "war on women"?
Please show a christian church that does not hold women subordinate to men.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 10:30 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 11:47 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 157 of 383 (689920)
02-06-2013 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by jaywill
02-06-2013 11:47 AM


Re: The NT and Women ?
More preaching I see.
All I see is that you again are using The No true Scotsmen fallacy. As expected.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 11:47 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 12:04 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 160 of 383 (689924)
02-06-2013 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by jaywill
02-06-2013 12:04 PM


Re: The NT and Women ?
Something wrong with preaching ?
This is a discussion and debate site, not a preaching site.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 12:04 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 12:09 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 162 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 12:44 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 163 of 383 (689928)
02-06-2013 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by jaywill
02-06-2013 12:44 PM


Re: The NT and Women ?
So your not going to address this at all?
Message 151
Theo writes:
But that does not support your argument. because it is a fact that the early church was much more inclusive of women than the Christianity we have today. Using his argument is nothing more than a dodge. The Christianity he is talking about does not exist today and has not existed for over 1800 years.
Just personal attacks?
ABE
Hint. Stark is not talking about any modern incarnation of Christianity.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 12:44 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 4:26 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 180 of 383 (689997)
02-07-2013 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jaywill
02-06-2013 4:51 PM


Re: The NT and Women ?
I am not sure what you mean here.
Don't play stupid. You are demeaning yourself.
The belief that Christ is Son of God no longer exists?
The belief that He died and rose for the redemption of sinners no longer exists?
Do you mean the belief in the resurrection no longer exists?
Do you mean the hope of His second coming no longer exists?
Do you mean receiving Him and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit no longer exists? Do you mean these things are no longer taught?
Do you mean persecution for being a Christian no longer exists?
Times have changed no doubt. I do not see the Christian Gospel as no longer in existence.
Strawmen and bullshit.
I would not deny that there are some apostasies from the faith. I would agree that there is some degradation and some corruption. I would not say that matter is absolutely new. Nor would I say that the Christian faith no longer exists or Christianity no longer is exists as it did 1800 years ago.
Again with the No True Scotsman fallacy? Really? That is getting really old.
Nor would I say that the Christian faith no longer exists or Christianity no longer is exists as it did 1800 years ago.
Show me a church that is the same as Christianity was 1800 years ago.
At best you have some kind of exaggeration there.
At best you have got nothing here.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 4:51 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 181 of 383 (689998)
02-07-2013 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by jaywill
02-06-2013 4:26 PM


Re: The NT and Women ?
In other words, if Stark is correct, there is no reason to think the factor would not apply in these times less than in the earlier times.
But Stark is not talking about modern times. Ergo, goodbye argument.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by jaywill, posted 02-06-2013 4:26 PM jaywill has not replied

  
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