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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
Dredge
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Posts: 1435
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(1)
Message 392 of 868 (849350)
03-06-2019 11:17 PM


Who made God? Christian theology says God has always existed, so no one made God.

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
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Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 418 of 868 (855246)
06-17-2019 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
01-18-2013 8:33 AM


Re: Main Assertion: God is an uncaused first cause and was never made.
Who made God? God didn't have a beginning, so no one made God; He has always existed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 01-18-2013 8:33 AM Phat has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-17-2019 9:09 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
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Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 448 of 868 (855445)
06-19-2019 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by jar
06-18-2019 8:07 PM


jar writes:

Humans created the God of Genesis 2&3 and much later humans created the God of Genesis 1. Even earlier humans created Ganesha and Ra and Nut and Horus and Saturn and Hypnos and Eros. Later humans created Allah.


So why, after reading about all these other gods, did I dismiss them as fables and accept the Bible as the truth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by jar, posted 06-18-2019 8:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 449 of 868 (855446)
06-19-2019 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Tanypteryx
06-17-2019 9:09 PM


Re: Main Assertion: God is an uncaused first cause and was never made.
Tanypteryx writes:

Fiction


Where did the energy and matter that makes up the universe come from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-17-2019 9:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 450 by Theodoric, posted 06-19-2019 9:34 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 452 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-19-2019 9:59 PM Dredge has taken no action

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 453 of 868 (855459)
06-19-2019 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 439 by jar
06-18-2019 8:43 PM


jar writes:

But you are not me and I am a Christian. And the fact remains that all of the Gods and gods that we can and have ever described are simply human creations.


You are a "Christian" but you don't believe that God exists?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by jar, posted 06-18-2019 8:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by jar, posted 06-20-2019 8:16 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 454 of 868 (855460)
06-19-2019 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Theodoric
06-19-2019 9:34 PM


Re: Main Assertion: God is an uncaused first cause and was never made.
Theodoric writes:

No one knows. There are some ideas and hypotheses but no one knows. Just because no one knows does not mean godidit.


If energy and matter had a beginning, what did they come from? Nothing?

If energy and matter didn't have a beginning, they must have always existed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Theodoric, posted 06-19-2019 9:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by Theodoric, posted 06-19-2019 11:23 PM Dredge has taken no action
 Message 456 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 2:11 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 476 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 11:44 AM Dredge has taken no action

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 500 of 868 (855600)
06-20-2019 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 470 by jar
06-20-2019 8:16 AM


jar writes:

I am a Christian and know that every God or god described in or by any religion is a creation of the human mind.


Thanks ... for repeating yourself. Do you believe that Jesus is the Third Person of the Trinity, that he died on the cross for our sins and that he was bodily resurrected to life three days later?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by jar, posted 06-20-2019 8:16 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by jar, posted 06-20-2019 7:27 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 505 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2019 12:10 AM Dredge has taken no action

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 501 of 868 (855601)
06-20-2019 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by Tangle
06-20-2019 2:11 AM


Re: Main Assertion: God is an uncaused first cause and was never made.
Tangle writes:

We'll let you know if/when we've worked it out


I won't be holding my breath ... for another pseudo-scientific theory that can't be tested.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
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Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 534 of 868 (855765)
06-22-2019 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by jar
06-20-2019 7:27 PM


You're obvioulsy not a Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by jar, posted 06-20-2019 7:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 9:35 PM Dredge has taken no action
 Message 536 by jar, posted 06-22-2019 9:40 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 640 of 868 (858125)
07-17-2019 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 536 by jar
06-22-2019 9:40 PM


jar writes:

I am a Christian


What qualifies you as a Christian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by jar, posted 06-22-2019 9:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 641 by jar, posted 07-17-2019 8:01 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 643 by ringo, posted 07-17-2019 5:21 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 660 of 868 (858491)
07-20-2019 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 643 by ringo
07-17-2019 5:21 PM


ringo writes:

What qualifies you to ask?


What qualifies you to ask that?

Matthew 7:7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

“Is it not those inside the Church whom you are to judge?” (1Cor 5:12)

it isn't up to you to decide.

“do not trust every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God … By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist” (1John 4:1-3)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by ringo, posted 07-17-2019 5:21 PM ringo has replied

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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 661 of 868 (858492)
07-20-2019 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 641 by jar
07-17-2019 8:01 AM


jar writes:

I was born into a Christian Family, raised as a Christian, Baptized in the Rite of Baptism, Confirmed in the Rite of Confirmation, educated in a Christian School and a registered member of a recognized Christian Denomination.


So was my brother-in-law … and now he’s a rabid atheist. So, an atheist can also be a Christian?

I noticed you didn’t try and qualify yourself by mentioning any of your “Christian” beliefs … which is hardly surprising, since you probably have none.
But in the unlikely case that you do have any Christian beliefs, what are they? For example, who was Jesus? Do you even believe Jesus was a real person?

“ These people really did not belong to our fellowship, and that is why they left us; if they had belonged to our fellowship, they would have stayed with us. But they left so that it might be clear that none of them really belonged to us. (1John 2:19)

I am a Christian.

I seriously doubt it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by jar, posted 07-17-2019 8:01 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by jar, posted 07-20-2019 9:10 PM Dredge has replied
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 673 of 868 (858698)
07-22-2019 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by jar
07-20-2019 9:10 PM


jar writes:

My beliefs are, surprisingly my beliefs and have been outlined at EvC in detail … I do believe that Jesus is GOD, but while he was here on earth He was fully man, human, just like you, just like me.


How could God ‘de-God’ Himself and became a mere creature (the man, Jesus)? How could a creature (the man, Jesus) became God? The mind boggles.

If Jesus didn’t claim his own divinity, why did he refer to himself as “something greater than the Temple” and “the “Lord of the Sabbath”; and why did the Jews accuse him of blasphemy?

John the Baptist described Jesus as “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world” - how can a mere man possibly take away the sins of the world?

If you deny that the earthly Jesus was not God Incarnate, you are denying John 1:1-14 ...
“The Word was God … and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us … as the only-begotten Son from the Father.” That is to say, GOD dwelt among us. How do you explain “his name shall be called Emmanuel … which means, ‘God with us’” (Matt 1:23)?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by jar, posted 07-20-2019 9:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 675 by jar, posted 07-23-2019 8:42 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 674 of 868 (858701)
07-23-2019 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 659 by ringo
07-19-2019 5:23 PM


ringo writes:

You're always out of line to say somebody isn't a Christian. Judge not.


You clearly don’t understand judgement as it applies within Christianity. Christians are not entitled to judge a person’s soul - as in “You are an evil person and you’re going to hell” - as only God can judge a person’s soul. But a Christian is allowed to judge the deeds, words and beliefs of other Christians according the norms of Christian doctrine - as in “What you believe or what you are doing/saying is wrong/evil/unChristian.”

For example, Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t considered to be authentic Christians because they deny the divinity of Jesus. In the same vein, Christians are entitled to judge and call out someone like jar, who claims to be a “Christian”, but denies a core Christian doctrine such as the divinity of the earthly Jesus.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by ringo, posted 07-19-2019 5:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 676 by ringo, posted 07-23-2019 11:53 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1435
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 677 of 868 (859009)
07-26-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by jar
07-23-2019 8:42 AM


jar writes:

Yet that is exactly what is affirmed in the Nicene Creed. Beginning with the original version formulated in 325 AD which said "Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;" and continuing throughout Christian history to the current version which is:

For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.


Your interpretation of the Nicene Creed is childishly superficial, misinformed and false. It’s also fundamentally irrational: How could God stop being God and become a mere creature - the man, Jesus? This is as absurd as your other contention, that a mere man - Jesus - became God!

The various authors of the New Testament stories made quite a few claims.

Oh, so you know better than the gospel authors, who wrote under in inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Your claim to being “a Christian” is getting more laughable but the minute.
“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8-9).

Btw, I notice you didn’t bother to answer any of the theological questions in my earlier post. That’s hardly surprising - your false theology is so easily refuted.

I simply honestly support the basics of the Christian faith

You’re delusional. The divinity of the earthly Jesus is the most basic Christians belief. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “Belief in the true Incarnation [ie, Jesus was truly God and truly human] of the Son of God is the distinctive sign of Christian faith” (#463). To deny that core doctrine is to declare yourself a heretic, at the very least. Worse, according to the following verses, it makes you “antichrist”:
“Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Anyone who denies the Son does not have the Father.” (1John 2:22-23)
“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2John 7)
” Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist” - 1John 4:1-3 “.

Can someone who qualifies as “antichrist” also be a Christian? Of course not!

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by jar, posted 07-23-2019 8:42 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by jar, posted 07-26-2019 6:38 PM Dredge has replied

  
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