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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 195 of 752 (826455)
01-02-2018 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by LamarkNewAge
01-01-2018 9:48 PM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi LNA

I would like to comment on a couple of your comments.

LNA writes:

I said (rather brilliantly):

quote:

Perhaps one, if a "Biblical Christian", MUST have a sort of pantheistic type of view on "where God came from", when one has to consider that God would have come from another universe.
Stay with the idea of (the) God, consistent with modern Christian fundamentalist's beliefs, coming from another universe, and one (such universe) that would have begun as absolutely nothing.

Simply brilliant (joking).

I am a fundamentalist and I do not believe our universe came from another universe. That is string theory.

I do not believe anything that exists came from nothing. Only scientist believe that.

LNA writes:

All I will say is that any "God of the gaps" notion that what we cannot comprehend & scientifically discover the origin of (or at least what brought about these things) must therefore be of God, should be avoided.

Science has not and can not discover the origin of the universe.

There is no scientific data until T=10-43 s.
This is due to a mathematical problem, General Relativity breaks down and can not give any information.

Added by edit: The Planck epoch is the time during which physics is assumed to have been dominated by quantum effects of gravity.

String theory was proposed to solve this problem. Since there is no data available anything that is devised by scientist that existed prior to T=10-43 s. has to come from their imagination.

LNA writes:

But we should understand that God, if he created this Universe, had to have come from somewhere.

I have stated on this web site that anything that could cause the universe and everything in it to begin to exist would be God, no matter what it was.

It would have to be eternal in existence.
It would have to be Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omniscience.

Stephen Hawkins proposed an 'instanton' had popped into existence and produced the universe we have. Therefore he claimed to have proved we did not need God to create the universe.

For the 'instanton' to pop into existence it would require a vacuum which would require space to exist in.

But I have had it pounded into my head on this site that there is no thing outside of the universe. It was supposedly a self-contained universe, according to cavediver and Son Goku that began to expand at what we call T=10-43 s. .

LNA writes:

Don't Christians say "Lucifer" is the same thing as Satan,

The Hebrew word שחר translated "Lucifer"
exists 1 time in the Hebrew text. Isaiah 14:12

Anyone with a 5th grade reading ability can read Isaiah 14:6 and understand Isaiah is writing a proverb against a man who was the King of Babylon.

The word Lucifer is used in Isaiah 14:12

Four verses later in Isaiah 14:16 "They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"

The subject of the proverb has not changed and the question is asked: ", Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?".

That plainly says man, and a man is not an angelic being.

I would appreciate any corrections needed to make my statements accurate as they will be a part of my book. I will not use cavediver's and Son's handle in the book.

God Bless,

Edited by ICANT, : To correct the number T=0-40 second as pointed out by NoNukes.

Edited by ICANT, : Corrected time to the Planck epoch


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-01-2018 9:48 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by NoNukes, posted 01-02-2018 1:56 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 199 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-03-2018 12:58 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 202 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-04-2018 12:56 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 203 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-04-2018 8:01 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 197 of 752 (826497)
01-02-2018 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by NoNukes
01-02-2018 1:56 PM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi NoNukes,

NoNukes writes:

I don't know if you care about getting this right or not,

You know I want to get things right so I edited my post to correct the time. I was writing from memory which is fading with my old age.

Can I assume everything else was correct as you did not point out any other mistakes.

If you was just in too big a hurry please go back and point out any other mistakes you found.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by NoNukes, posted 01-02-2018 1:56 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by NoNukes, posted 01-02-2018 8:51 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 200 of 752 (826511)
01-03-2018 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by NoNukes
01-02-2018 8:51 PM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi NoNukes,

NoNukes writes:

Since the majority of the work is your opinion about science, I don't see any reason to do that.

Since you do not refute any of my opinions I will assume that you are in agreement with each statement other than the time statement which I have corrected.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by NoNukes, posted 01-02-2018 8:51 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 01-03-2018 10:40 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 214 by NoNukes, posted 01-04-2018 2:38 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 208 of 752 (826574)
01-04-2018 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by jar
01-03-2018 10:40 AM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi jar,

jar writes:

Not wasting time responding to silly statements does not connote endorsement.

Would please point out exactly which statements you are talking about.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 01-03-2018 10:40 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 01-04-2018 12:27 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 210 of 752 (826580)
01-04-2018 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by LamarkNewAge
01-03-2018 12:58 AM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

What about Carl Wieland and his magazine?

I have never read his magazine and knew very little about him.
So I had to do some reading to get up to speed.

I found him to be a young earth creationist, YEC for short version. He believes the same garbage put out by Ellen G. White which was spread by the 7th day Adventist over the past 85 years.

He does not believe in what the original text says just a version of it that he has been taught by his peers.

He has many good beliefs but when it comes to creation he is far from the truth.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-03-2018 12:58 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-05-2018 12:57 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 211 of 752 (826581)
01-04-2018 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by jar
01-04-2018 12:27 PM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi jar,

jar writes:

Everything you post ICANT.

Lets try this a little bit at the time like the cat ate the iron wedge.

In my original post you replied too I said:

quote:
Science has not and can not discover the origin of the universe.

There is no scientific data until T=10-43 s.


What is specifically factually wrong with that statement?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 01-04-2018 12:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by jar, posted 01-04-2018 2:27 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 212 of 752 (826582)
01-04-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by jar
01-04-2018 12:27 PM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi jar,

jar writes:

Everything you post ICANT.

Another statement from my post.

quote:
String theory was proposed to solve this problem. Since there is no data available anything that is devised by scientist that existed prior to T=10-43 s. has to come from their imagination.

If there is no scientific data prior to T=10-43 s, where would any scientist get data to make assumptions of what took place prior to T=10-43 s?

What is factually wrong with my quoted statement?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by jar, posted 01-04-2018 12:27 PM jar has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 217 of 752 (826637)
01-05-2018 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by LamarkNewAge
01-05-2018 12:57 AM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

Please explain your sentences.

Which ones?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-05-2018 12:57 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-06-2018 12:58 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 218 of 752 (826640)
01-05-2018 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by jar
01-04-2018 2:27 PM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi jar,

jar writes:

"There is no scientific data until T=10-43 s at this time."

But the theory of general relativity is what says there is no data prior to T=10-43 s, not me.

jar don't you know how to copy and paste numbers that require special codes? Peek then copy and paste from there.

jar writes:

Really, you need to stop saying stupid things.

Maybe you are right jar. But until someone comes up with a theory to replace general relativity there will be no data prior to T=10-43 s.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by jar, posted 01-04-2018 2:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by jar, posted 01-05-2018 8:34 PM ICANT has not yet responded
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 227 of 752 (826672)
01-06-2018 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by LamarkNewAge
01-04-2018 12:56 AM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

I guess you aren't going to answer my questions until you get a longer post?

I am very busy most days but at my age (78) when it is cold like it is now I do not get very far from the inside of the house.

But I needed to get information on the subject of your question before I replied.

LNA writes:

I'm not so sure what most scientists believe.

I am not sure what anyone believes other than myself.

But there is no scientist that can believe anything existed prior to the Planck epoch because he/she has no scientific data to base any conclusion on.

Any scientist that believes anything existed prior to the Planck epoch is basing his belief on faith which I have been told no scientist other than Christian scientist have.

LNA writes:

I will skip commenting on String theory, except to say that it alone isn't the only theory that has multiple universes. Not by a long shot.

There is no theory of anything existing prior to the Planck epoch.
String theory is not a theory as it is a belief that is based on zero scientific data. That makes it a hypothesis.

LNA writes:

The whole issue of saying that only scientists saying that something came from nothing is just a confused confusion that is really really confusing.

What is confusing about it.

All creationist believe the heavens and the earth and everything it them had a beginning to exist. Except maybe me and a few of my friends. We believe the universe and everything in it has always existed in some form just not in the form it is in today. I believe I can prove that by the original text of the Hebrew old Testament.

Science cannot prove the existence of any thing prior to the Planck epoch. That means no space, no time, no void, no vacuum, literally an absence of existence. Nothing to support the String hypothesis or the bounce hypothesis.

Since there was no existence prior to the Planck epoch, anything that existed at the Planck epoch had to begin to exist from an absence of existence. That would mean everything we see came from nothing which is a scientific impossibility.

LNA writes:

On the "beginning" part.

There is the issue of time and space being the same thing and space being created by some force (to counteract the gravity), then temperatures dropping. Temperatures below 1.2 billion degrees Kelvin allowed particle to fuse to form the elements (deuterium which is Hydrogen) when there is space to allow the temperature to drop.

What would that force be and where would it come from?

Who measured the temperature at the Planck epoch? What instrument was used to measure that temjperature? So I just wonder where those numbers came from?

LNA writes:

Space and Time and particles fusing to form the first elements.But is the "beginning" of space (time) really the very first thing?

Great question. You won't find a scientific answer as to what the very first existence was. There is no scientific data to even support a guess. Everybody wants to require a cause for the existence of God which is the topic of this thread, but none of my foes here wants to hear it if I require a cause for the existence of the universe.

I have a cause for the existence of the universe. The eternal all powerful God created it.

I do find a statement that the universe had a beginning.

quote:
Stephen Hawking says: "In this lecture, I would like to discuss whether time itself has a beginning, and whether it will have an end. All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology. Yet it is now taken for granted."
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

LNA writes:

You typed (or pasted) the word for dawn.

I typed it you tried to copy and paste it. But they both refer to the same thing, 'morning'.

If you want to copy and paste something from a post that is Hebrew or Greek or special number formations you need to click peek mode in the top right hand corner and then copy and paste that information.

The Hebrew word הילל is the one translated Lucifer. This Hebrew word appears no other place in the Hebrew text. The meaning is light or light bearer.

‘Morning star’ or lucifer in the Latin Vulgate literally referred to Venus, but metaphorically would refer to earthly kings, emperors, and pagan deities. The KJV translators did not translate הילל. They probably used Jerome’s translation as they were very familiar with latin. Lucifer is not a proper name it simply is a Latin translation for morning star.

I do not find one Hebrew Scholar who proposes that the devil is lucifer in Isaiah 14:12.
Verse 16 plainly says this lucifer is a man. That should settle any argument on this text.

LNA writes:

(without the vowels or ben/son hyphen part)

Biblical Hebrew has no vowels. The vowel markings was added in 800 AD by the Masoretes..
In Bible Hebrew the Aleph א He ה Vav ו and yud י consonants serve as vowel letters.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-04-2018 12:56 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 230 of 752 (826676)
01-06-2018 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by LamarkNewAge
01-06-2018 12:58 AM


Re: The Soma ("body" of Christ in the Greek) a soul of God (and the matter of universe?)
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

quote:

He does not believe in what the original text says just a version of it that he has been taught by his peers.


Explain this please.

I was taught a lot of things from 1949 when I was born again until I studied Hebrew and Greek in the 60's which I majored in while in Bible College. I then continued my studies until today and will continue tomorrow as I learn things every day.

After studying Hebrew and Greek I learned that a lot of things that I had been taught did not agree with what the Bible says.

I was taught about a canopy around the earth. I was taught that the earth was very young. I was taught that we could not understand most of the Bible. I was taught there was one creation event in Genesis chapter 1 and an explanation in chapter 2.

I have found that all those were lies.
The canopy or bubble as some prefer did not exist.
The heavens and the earth is older than mans biggest numbers.

Just think a few years back they told us the oil reserves started out with 3 trillion barrels of oil. We have used over a trillion barrels and they still tell us there is 3 trillion barrels left. It takes 98,000 lbs of material to create 1 gallon of gasoline. All the vegetation that is on the earth at present would not even produce the surface coal we have today. I have asked the question many times in different places for someone to explain how all that material got covered up with up to 5 miles of dirt and rock. Nobody even hazards a reply. The oil at 5 miles deep in the earth is under 22,000 psi. You pop a drill in a pocket of oil and it will come out of the ground without a pump. Our little fiasco in the Gulf shows how much oil can flow from a well. Now as to how that material got there. It had to get there when the land mass that contains it was the surface of the earth and was then covered up. We have cities and buildings being uncovered all the time by scientist. Now to produce all the material for the oil in the ground that would have required a long period of time. Since we have rock being formed by molten rock all the time which when tested is brand new rock there is no way to tell how old the earth really is as it has to have changed many times during the time the oil, natural gas, and coal has been formed.

So yes the earth is very old.

That is the reason I made the comment I did.

You are a victim of the same thing. You believe what you believe because it is what you have been taught and if you never question that information you will probably be wrong in most things you think you know. You see everyone has an opinion and they want you to agree with their opinion. I am going to keep putting my opinions out there whether anyone agrees with me or not does not matter. But to those who try to present information to change my opinion to theirs is welcomed because that is how I can learn. There are some posters on the internet that are useless as they never post anything to refute what I say or try to change my mind. Those that do I appreciate your input into my learning process.

At 78 I learn something new everyday. If I don't it is a day in my life that is wasted.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-06-2018 12:58 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 232 of 752 (826680)
01-06-2018 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by LamarkNewAge
01-06-2018 8:05 PM


Re: Jonathan Sarfati, of AIG, accepts General Relitivity (and AIG itself).
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

Then is it obvious that there was something?

(What? Is it space? Empty space I presume? Or is it matter? What matter?)

According to everything I have been told here there is nothing outside of the universe. Stephen Hawking, Son Goku, and cavediver have said the universe was self-contained.

So there was no empty space or matter until after the universe existed. Which did not exist until the Planck epoch.

LNA writes:

You do know that we are talking about something existing eternally in the PAST, right?

That is the only way there was anything prior to the Planck epoch.
It had to exist eternally in the past. Or you run into the same problem with space, or matter beginning to exist.

The only way to solve the nothingness problem is to have an eternal source of power which God is.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-06-2018 8:05 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-07-2018 12:58 AM ICANT has responded
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 243 of 752 (826706)
01-07-2018 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by LamarkNewAge
01-07-2018 12:58 AM


Eternal power (energy)
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

God would have needed to come from somewhere too because to say "He was just there", sounds to me like pantheism (on another universe or perhaps a spiritual plane).

Whatever caused the universe to begin to exist would have to have all power, all knowledge, and the ability to be everywhere.

I choose to believe an eternal being who has all power, all knowledge, and the ability to be everywhere called God is the cause.

Stephen Hawking believes that power was an instanton which was capable of producing the universe we have today and everything in it. The problem is that instanton would have to have a vacuum to pop into existence in, to then expand and create the universe. But he makes no provisions for space to contain a vacuum for the instanton to pop into existence in.

In fact, James Hartle of the University of California Santa Barbara, and I have proposed that space and imaginary time together, are indeed finite in extent, but without boundary. They would be like the surface of the Earth, but with two more dimensions. The surface of the Earth is finite in extent, but it doesn't have any boundaries or edges. I have been round the world, and I didn't fall off.

quote:
If space and imaginary time are indeed like the surface of the Earth, there wouldn't be any singularities in the imaginary time direction, at which the laws of physics would break down. And there wouldn't be any boundaries, to the imaginary time space-time, just as there aren't any boundaries to the surface of the Earth. This absence of boundaries means that the laws of physics would determine the state of the universe uniquely, in imaginary time. But if one knows the state of the universe in imaginary time, one can calculate the state of the universe in real time. One would still expect some sort of Big Bang singularity in real time. So real time would still have a beginning. But one wouldn't have to appeal to something outside the universe, to determine how the universe began. Instead, the way the universe started out at the Big Bang would be determined by the state of the universe in imaginary time. Thus, the universe would be a completely self-contained system. It would not be determined by anything outside the physical universe, that we observe.
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

This is where the so-called space/time came from.

There is no scientific data to support such a conclusion, or at least I have never seen any it is just accepted as fact at EvC.

The web site I presented is Steven Hawking's web site with a lecture called "The Beginning of Time".

LNA writes:

It sounds like you see this universe as the only thing that ever could have existed space wise (meaning that there were never any universes in any other "space" AND NOTE that "space" would seemingly have to start out as non-space then become space).

As far as what science can address it can only go back to the Planck epoch for information nothing can be known past that point as General Relativity breaks down and produces no data. So it would be limited to the present universe.

But I would not put any such limitations on an all powerful God. He could have as many universes as He desired to have created. He may have thousands of universes that even have an earth like planet with life forms on them.

Although He may have only created this one. But if He could be limited to one universe He would not be an all powerful God.

LNA writes:

Sounds like he came from nothing or you think whatever existed somehow became him or what?

If He had to begin to exist He would not be God. Because whatever caused Him to begin to exist would be God.

LNA writes:

You say that God created all the forces to make all that we see?

No, I say that God created all that there is. He even made all the laws that governs the universe. In fact He is the energy that holds it all together according to His claims.

quote:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

LNA writes:

But you don't say where God came from!

Sure I have said where He came from. He is the eternal God as He claimed when Moses ask Him who he was going to tell the children of Israel had sent him.

Exodus writes:

3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

The Hebrew word היה Which is 1ps translated I AM means to be, become, exist...

God in that verse as He talked with Moses claimed to be I EXIST THAT I EXIST.

That is where He came from. If something created Him then that whatever it was would be God.

A person that does not have a personal relationship with God has a real problem with my above statements.

I don't just believe in God, I know He exists as we have a personal relationship. I have asked Him for specific things and received them instantly. I have also asked Him for things and He said No Way Son. Later I found out He knew best.

LNA writes:

Based on what little you drop, you (and every other creationist I have heard) are really describing a belief in a type of "collective soul of the universe" always-existing type of RULE MAKER for the forces we see. You have a spiritual pantheism thing going, and don't know it.

Nope.

My God has a physical body just like I have. He put it on and came down to earth and lived here for 33.5 years and the religious establishment of His days here on earth rejected Him as Messiah and killed Him. Well actually He gave His life that I and anyone who would receive His offer of a free full pardon could spend the balance of eternity with Him in a new heaven and earth that He will create after this one melts with fervent heat.

LNA writes:

Your clues are the "always" and "eternal" parts you drop to describe this God.

Always, and eternal is not a description of God. It is just how long He has existed. We could sit and talk for months and I could not give you the complete description of God.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-07-2018 12:58 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2018 12:57 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 253 by Son Goku, posted 01-09-2018 4:15 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 250 of 752 (826736)
01-09-2018 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by LamarkNewAge
01-08-2018 12:57 AM


Re: Eternal power (energy)
Hi LNA,

LNA writes:

Yahweh actually can only really mean I AM or I WILL BE.

NOT IN PAST (probably not though Hebrew is tricky with tenses as there are none in the Bible, mostly)

I don't know where you come from with the I AM other than from the translation of the KJV or one of the other versions.

You sure did not get it from the definition of היה, which is 1.to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out.

You are right about Biblical Hebrew tenses. They don't exist period, there is no mostly to it.
Verbs are either perfect, completed action or imperfect, ongoing action.

σϋνίστήμι
This is the Greek word that is translated consist in Col. 1:17.
The word means: 1.to place together, to set in the same place,to bring or band together. I don't know where you got your translation from.
If you click the circle beside the peek button you can see how I made the Greek letters appear in the post instead of a mess. They will not copy and paste, neither will Hebrew. HTML code is required.

LNA writes:

Here is an evangelical commentary.

The Greek font isn't working

body is "soma" (used in text without definition in a few places)

"pleroma" is fullness

"arche" is beginning

The meaning of 'soma' is: 1.the body both of men or animals.
So in the text body would be referring to the people who made up the church.

'pleroma' means 1.that which is (has been) filled

'arche' means: 1.beginning, origin

So what is all that about and where did it come from?

It came from the United Methodist Church which used the NIV Bible which I refer to as the Non Inspired Version Bible. It is so full of mistakes and left out text it is a shame that it is referred to as a Bible.

If you want to discuss the Greek Bible use the Textus Receptus or
Morphological Greek New Testament both are available online.

I don't care to discuss someone else's commentary but I would discuss your commentary.

LNA writes:

Yahweh, according to Hebrew grammar, backs this cosmology up!

I don't know what you draw that conclusion from.
Could you give me the Hebrew text that supports your conclusion?

As far as Harold Bloom is concerned I would pay as much attention to his writings on religion as I would to jar.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-08-2018 12:57 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-10-2018 12:48 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


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Message 251 of 752 (826737)
01-09-2018 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by ringo
01-08-2018 11:08 AM


true premises
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

Well, to "make sense" logically, an idea has to start with true premises, doesn't it? How can you tell whether or not something is true without evidence?

Where is the true premise (evidence) for the universe and everything in it existing at the Planck epoch, the size of a pin point before it began to expand?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by ringo, posted 01-08-2018 11:08 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-09-2018 3:14 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 260 by ringo, posted 01-09-2018 11:20 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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