Who Made God?

Agreed! It just seems as if I read the Bible. I really dont study it all that often, though I do believe that when I received the Holy Spirit the very Word went into me. Sounds crazy, I know. But I am also reading the following books at the moment: 13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened In Benghazi
Hosoi: My Life as a Skateboarder Junkie Inmate Pastor
True Notebooks: A Writer's Year at Juvenile Hall

Oh, Pressie! Its a belief. Nowhere will we ever find evidence that is/was factual. It does not matter if it is/ factual. What matters is if you believe it or not. If everyone believed that Star Wars described an approximation of the likely populations of the near universe interacting with one another, fighting, making peace, making babies or droids or the kids in that cantina scene... Original Cantina Scene - A New Hope Point being that if the collective imagination of humanity leans toward a consensus, it could well be that we have actualized a possibility through our collective imagination. Feel Me?

They will argue that they can since determination to them is based on the likelihood (or chance) that they are right. Of course, theories are always and forever being revised. Our secular humanist friends here at EvC collectively feel more comfortable with scientific and supportable theories vs. what they would consider empty beliefs. But then they have not yet met Jesus. To me, the next question is this: Can something exist that is not evident? What is the difference between romance, cultural mythos, and legends?

God is the Creator of all seen and unseen. As jar astutely points out, GOD, if GOD exists, is likely, unlike anything we humans could imagine. Whether or not God loves us is discussed in scripture. Progressive revelation has the "God Character" evolving throughout the Bible. jar argues that the authors, editors, and redactors were likely discussing different Gods, but jar presupposes that God(Not GOD--Note) is a creation of the human mind. Thus concludes that the Bible has many different Gods as described. I would argue that it is all the same God being described differently by humans of different eras and cultures and that the Bible thus has progressive revelation as to the character of God...lastly described through the character of the man Christ Jesus. Some argue that Jesus as an actual character never existed, but others disagree with this assessment and claim that the jury is still out. The Holy Spirit, unique in that it(He) remains on the earth as evidence of Gods presence. It's not so much a matter of evidence being needed. Its the bigger question of how would you respond to such a God if such a God were in fact real? Which also hints at why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is such a big deal. But of course, I speak from a believers perspective. Comments?

I agree. God expects us to grow. We cant forever be an ignorant bunch of backwoods Bible Thumpers.

And God would likely understand your emotional reaction, as well as your refusal to believe.Let me read the link you gave her to see if I get a different take on it. You seem to insist that I express myself in my own words, which is what I usually do here, but you then usually get angry and accuse me of being just like the rest of them. You are quick to judge. I recall that you found some story about the human foible and dishonesty ofRavi Zacharias, but I noted that you seemed to relish finding one major fault (if it was even true) about him and then judging him accordingly. Let's define magic. And Note that I can't influence what God is going to do, nor should I even want to. He can handle His job quite adequately. That last definition fits my feelings regarding belief in general. I could rightly be accused of not only having confirmation bias in regards to every prayer I have had answered and every amazing event that I have witnessed but in a way, it's almost like a verification bias. The evidence which I will accept is not evidence that can be objectively replicated on demand for the Randi committee of paranormal claims. Theodoric seems to me to be the puny human ant on the pale blue dot, shaking his fist at the sky. Granted he loves and embraces evidence...verified only through social consensus and agreement. But as to the possibility that a supernatural Being could exist? Fuck Him! (Theodoric would say) Sez you. Obviously it is more evident to you...despite a lack of evidence in God, to begin with, you seem to prefer that an uncaring God would be more likely than the God I describe and market. As well as their own preconceived bias! Just know that He won't smite you when you tell Him to fuck off. He will have you on your knees, however...willingly or unwillingly. Comments?

Do you think that *we* are here for no purpose? Just answer the question.

And this gets back to our old argument about how evidence is defined. You used to irately ask me how I had the gall to make up my own definition, so I'll elaborate here:

So one side says that God exists and that it is God Who determines the ultimate purpose. The other side (jars side) claims that humans create their own purpose. They create their own gods. They are the arbitrators of reality.

As a Christian, do you deny that Jesus Christ is the arbitrator of reality? Your answer will provide further insight into your belief.

So are you saying that humanity has to agree before it can be called evidence? But of course that is a Dusty old book compiled by a Brazilian authors, editors, and redactors. And there is far from a consensus as to the accuracy or evident meaning of said book (or books). Maybe you can conjure up Stephen Hawking from the dead...he famously was quoted as saying

quote:

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Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.

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But Stephen Hawking is Dead and had a great mind but nobody. The Universe also has a great mind. Every knee shall bow someday...either willingly or unwillingly.

And you both believe that humans made God up and continue to do so. We can safely throw you in this Club over here. Or can we? jar claims to be a believer. Tangle? Just a chap who fishes for a livelihood.

I'll try and add a link to the transcript when I get a few minutes later today.

It means that through Him, all things were created. Not through a dead genius. At best, Hawking was an intelligent ant. Jesus Was, Is, and always Will Be, for those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life. I've never checked the list myself. Cute that you use the word "Ape." Animals, by nature, have instincts. They do not have a conscious self awareness nor an intuition. Only humans have these qualities. The GoE Story is quite likely not literally true. If the Bible was literal in the sense of Great Floods (no evidence for one) Adam & Eve and the talking snake Danial and the Great Fish, etc...then all of life as we know it would become an untrustworthy, enchanted and magical land of demons, goblins, talking snakes, literal Angels and literal fallen angels...or demons. Thus, rational Christians such as myself have assumed the stories to be metaphorical and yet actual in a metaphorical sense. Humans are the story on this planet, despite our egotistical awareness of and misuse of such a fact. GOD, the Creator of all seen and unseen throughout not only a universe but a potential multiverse reality of as yet unknown matters, ideas, concepts, and facts, did in fact desire to connect with the humans here on earth at one preordained and foreknown point in time (as we know it). The book (or more appropriately, books, Canons, and written beliefs supporting the same general flow) was intended to be the explanation for humanity Of this eternal Communion through the Third Person of the Trinity presented to and introduced to consensual understanding at a given point in time. It was foreknown that He would die, killed by the very humans He was trying to reach. It was foreknown that there would be a Spiritual War of sorts between Gods perfect Communion offered to us to accept and that of a rogue free willed fallen angel who was also foreknown to have chosen independence from said Creator. Believe it or not. But don't assume that today's current crop of educated Free Willed Humans* who have chosen to reject Jesus Christ (Gods Human Character) and dismiss the stories as descriptions of a cruel and developing God of human imagination in one of many storybooks designed in the minds of humans. For the fact is that (some) humans by nature have chosen to dismiss the stories as old Legends and Cultural Mythos. And the reason is as simple as the story reveals it to be.

You call it word salad because you are not a believer. Your brain is not wired to take leaps of faith. Thus to you, I may as well be saying
’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.