Who Made God?

I may have mistaken what you were saying, sorry about that. You just sounded like all the others who like to see the Bible torn to shreds. And I think most of the time you do anyway. But I don't get what point you are making about when Mark was written anyway. There is a traditional understanding about the authorship of all the books that is quite sufficient. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

There is no evidence for the resurrection WITHOUT an inerrant Bible.

Yes I am saying that if you throw out any of the Old Testament you might as well throw out the New as well because it depends on the Old.GDR, believers in an inerrant Bible have no problem reconciling the Old Testament God with Jesus, it's UNBELIEVERS who make that distinction. If you are saved, great, but it must be by the skin of your teeth because you deny so much of the testimony of the Bible, which the New Testament treats as God's word in toto, referring to it without distinction as "the scriptures," and Jesus Himself quoted from all the books, and He also said to the disciples on the road to Emmaus that the entire Old Testament ("the scriptures") referred to Himself.And even if you can somehow make yourself believe in bits and pieces of the testimony and throw out the rest, your example to others may not create the same effect but just convince them that if the Bible isn't true in one place there's no reason to trust it where you trust it either. And I'd have to say their view makes sense. Picking and choosing from the Bible is a deadly error.It's your own spiritual weakness that leads you to divide the Bible to suit yourself, it is not a spiritual strength, and it is a terrible example to others.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Right. Well, people will believe either your tradition or mine then. I can only hope some of them make the right choice.
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Calling the Bible "any old document" is such proof of your failure of judgment it takes the breath away. But then I do know that only believers can judge any of this rightly because it takes the Holy Spirit to open it to us. I used to think, before I became a believer, that there was such a thing as rationality and that people were able to make accurate judgments, or some were. I still must believe something along those lines, unfortunately. even to be trying to persuade anyone here. Most of you seem to have gone beyond the point of no return so that even if thousands prayed for you there's no hope you'd ever wake up. I would like to believe I'm wrong and that God may yet have mercy on you.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

As I said. People will believe either your tradition or mine then. I can only hope some of them make the right choice.

But it is you who are far from the truth because the truth was given by God and you are instead trusting in your own fallible mind.There ARE no alternatives. I'm being very honest about that. The Bible is the standard, if you discredit it by the "experts" you are only deceiving yourself about the supposed "evidence." It's simply an elaborate deception.God said to "Believe," believe the testimony of His word and His witnesses, and I've argued here that the Bible gives all the evidence you should need to believe it, and if you don't, it's not I speaking against you, as you know very well -- it is God Himself through His word that says you MUST believe. Everybody would rather hear something else but this is what God says, it's not something I'm making up.When you believe then you come to know as well. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. That's something you can only understand WHEN you have faith, not before.That's what the word says, not I.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

No, I do not rely on my mind in the sense I mean that you do. I started with believing it and learned from there what I didn't know at first, SUBMITTING my own opinions to the Bible. The first thing is not to judge the Bible but let it judge you, but you judge it instead, you start from your own doubts and follow experts because they say things you agree with basically. You insist on evidence it doesn't offer instead of submitting to the evidence it does offer.I had to give up one idea of my own after another in order to come to faith in Christ through the Bible. I had objections to things in it and among Christians just as many here do, but because I believed it was God's word I submitted to it as my judge and determined to learn from it, and over time have come to agree with what I didn't agree with originally. Eventually I learned what it means to say that faith is the evidence of things unseen. Of course I used many teachers in learning it while reading it myself as well. That's why God gave the church pastors and teachers as the scripture says. If I don't understand something I put it aside hoping I'll understand it later.There was a point when I was just beginning to believe where it seemed that I didn't understand anything about anything because here there really was a God which I'd denied for the first half of my life, and here there was this Bible that I now believed to be God's own communication, and it contradicted half the things I thought I knew, or really it had turned everything I'd believed before that on its head, and I had to start from scratch. I had become willing to be wrong -- about everything I'd ever thought. That's a form of humility, not pride. Give up what you think you know, ask God to teach you. That's not pride.You and others here reject it when something in it doesn't sit right with your personal judgment and you agree with others who came to the same conclusion.The command is to "Believe," and that's where you have to start or you're going to end up loster than ever. Seems to me you have to give up your pride in order to believe, rather than the other way around.REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED.That's it.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I've kind of learned at EvC, Phat, not to talk about such things because they get treated like dirt here.The evidence is the miracles of the Bible, and in fact all the historical accounts in the Bible. That's why they were written, to be evidence of God's reality and character. I've said this many times already and I don't have any more to say. If people refuse to believe the Bible witnesses, or witnesses among us TO the Bible, that's pretty much the end of it as far as I'm able to contribute anything.I do remember that the mystery writer Dorothy Sayers wrote about her conversion by realizing that King Artaxerxes (the king in the book of Esther) really existed. She knew the history already and when she found him in the Bible she realized the accounts were true. I myself wasn't converted by such things though, I was converted by the Catholic mystics Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross who wrote about their personal experiences of God using scripture for references. God uses various things to draw people to Himself.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

You're wrong, Stile, other religions are NOT like the Bible and you have said nothing to prove otherwise. You just think it wouldn't be "fair" to think otherwise so you assume similarity where there is none.

Fortunately Dorothy Sayers was a much better judge of things historical than you.

I'm going with Sayers. Modern biblical scholarship is a fraud.

It's been understood to be history until "modern scholarship" got its paws on it.

No they did not turn out to be wrong, it's the modern scholarship that is wrong

the modern scholars are predominantly unbelievers. They should not be allowed to say anything about the Bible. Theoretically they should be able to be objective but it turns out in reality they can't. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Gosh you really ran with that didn't you? By twisting my meaning of course. Because what I meant is that unbelieving scholars should not be given any AUTHORITY over the Bible.And you know, just tit for tatting me doesn't change the fact that you hate God, Christ and Christians, and all your claim to BE a Christian is itself evil. If anybody needs some serious repentance, it's you.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.