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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 616 of 642 (856700)
07-02-2019 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 606 by Faith
07-01-2019 7:39 PM


The State, not God, defines marriage.
Faith writes:

God defines marriage, not I.

Bullshit Faith.

Marriage is a State created and controlled contract. A perfect example is that gay marriage is now lawful. It does not matter what you imagine otherwise, the reality is that marriage is a legal contract under government law which supersedes whatever you imagine God's Law might be.

Sorry Faith but that is reality while your position is pure fantasy.

Edited by jar, : fix subtitle


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Faith, posted 07-01-2019 7:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 2:06 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 617 of 642 (856727)
07-02-2019 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 616 by jar
07-02-2019 10:22 AM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
Faith writes:
God defines marriage, not I.

Bullshit Faith.
Marriage is a State created and controlled contract. A perfect example is that gay marriage is now lawful. It does not matter what you imagine otherwise, the reality is that marriage is a legal contract under government law which supersedes whatever you imagine God's Law might be.
Sorry Faith but that is reality while your position is pure *******.

Cept you don't get to tell us Bible believers how to define this, nor does the state or the Supreme Court. All the businesses that got sued independently understood how God defines marriage. and that is what they obeyed in refusing service to a same-sex wedding. Wedding cake businesses, flower arranger, photographer and even that poor clerk in the marriage license office, all knew God's mind on the subject. Bible believers obey God and your idea of what God said doesn't mean a thing. Why isn't that obvious?

And again, if the secular law opposes God, Bible believers will follow God and take the consequences. EvC is invited to the arena for the lion feast. A custom designed cake in the image of a lion on its hind legs with a Christian in its mouth will be served by Patriot Atheists Bakery afterward.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 616 by jar, posted 07-02-2019 10:22 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 618 by jar, posted 07-02-2019 2:46 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 619 by Taq, posted 07-02-2019 3:30 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 618 of 642 (856729)
07-02-2019 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by Faith
07-02-2019 2:06 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
It's not I telling you anything Faith, it's reality and the fact of law.

You are free to believe any fool thing you want but if you want to be married you get a license from the State.

Sorry Faith but that is fact.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 2:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-02-2019 5:30 PM jar has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7971
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 619 of 642 (856732)
07-02-2019 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by Faith
07-02-2019 2:06 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
Faith writes:

All the businesses that got sued independently understood how God defines marriage.

It is odd that we never hear God talking about this issue. Instead, all we have are the writings of men in the Bible and various other people from different religions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 2:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 3:32 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 620 of 642 (856733)
07-02-2019 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 619 by Taq
07-02-2019 3:30 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
I guess you have to be a believer to "hear God in the Bible."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by Taq, posted 07-02-2019 3:30 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by Taq, posted 07-02-2019 3:34 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7971
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 621 of 642 (856734)
07-02-2019 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 620 by Faith
07-02-2019 3:32 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
Faith writes:

I guess you have to be a believer to "hear God in the Bible."

It is still the writings of men. You can believe what you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

When God actually speaks, we will listen. Until then, what we have are humans who only claim to speak for God, which isn't at all compelling.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 3:32 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 3:41 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 622 of 642 (856736)
07-02-2019 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by Taq
07-02-2019 3:34 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
Uh huh, well God Himself ordained that we hear Him only through His chosen human instruments, although He gave lots of other kinds of evidence at various times, that His chosen instruments have the job of conveying to us. I guess you'll just have to disbelieve it all then if there's no way to convince you. In any case it is believers who claim to hear from God through the Bible and that doesn't change because there are unbelievers who try to debunk it.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 623 of 642 (856767)
07-02-2019 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 618 by jar
07-02-2019 2:46 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
It's an interesting contrast to a place like Israel.

I've been told (by Israelis) that there is no "civil marriage" in Israel. That is, there are no government marriage licenses, no justices of the peace to marry people, etc. Marriage is solely the province of the religions and their traditions. Israel recognizes marriages performed in other countries, of course, but that gives the odd result that people in Israel who don't want to be married in a temple (or church, mosque, handfasting oak grove...) go elsewhere (Cyprus, for example) to have a civil ceremony and a short vacation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by jar, posted 07-02-2019 2:46 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 624 by jar, posted 07-02-2019 5:35 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 628 by Faith, posted 07-03-2019 1:32 AM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 624 of 642 (856771)
07-02-2019 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 623 by Sarah Bellum
07-02-2019 5:30 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
But I and Faith are in the US and the issue involves US laws. In the US, marriage is a State contract and while we might recognize marriages from outside the US, to get married in the US you still need a license from the State.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-02-2019 5:30 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 625 of 642 (856774)
07-02-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 624 by jar
07-02-2019 5:35 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
Indeed, and not only that but so much law depends on the status of marriage. Even if there were no civil marriage, plenty of regulations treat married and unmarried couples differently (income tax, for example)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by jar, posted 07-02-2019 5:35 PM jar has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12566
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 626 of 642 (856777)
07-02-2019 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by Faith
07-02-2019 3:41 PM


How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
Remember the whole argument concerning why and how God hardened Pharaoh's Heart?
https://renewingyourmind.org/...-hardening-of-pharaohs-heart
Consider the implications IF believers by definition *did* have a special awareness of the workings of God, awareness of His presence, and wisdom to explain the divine plan.

I for one know that I am not infallible...I often have a lot of human crap filter through my online evangelism attempts. I always like to say that satan prefers the weakest among believers to be allowed to look as stupid and clueless as possible so as to discredit the whole product. This is why I share the videos of other teachers who I believe to be more stable than I am and better able to explain the concepts of the methodology of belief and the wisdom behind the ensuing discernment.

I realize that both you and I are able to present small doses of truth to the skeptical audience here in our mission field. It is even predicted that since humanity hated Jesus (the secular spirit of the age) that it (that spirit of antichrist) will indeed hate us too. And it will come through many of the members of EvC. But lets look at them with compassion, as Jesus would do. Can you really blame them for being angry at Christians? We are often our own worst enemy and a poor advertisement for the Messiah Whom represented the Creator Of All Seen And Unseen.

I dont think Percy hates us ...we do improve his ratings, after all ...but both you and I can appear a bit whack-o some times.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 3:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 627 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2019 1:21 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 627 of 642 (856806)
07-03-2019 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 626 by Thugpreacha
07-02-2019 7:38 PM


Re: How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
Phat writes:

but both you and I can appear a bit whack-o some times.

Not even close.

Neither of you have any formal training in anything yet all of a sudden you start claiming to be a teacher and Faith, from her armchair, who has never read a research paper in any discipline, tells us that archaeology, physics, biology, astronomy, palaeontology, geology and molecular genetics are all so wrong that we might as well throw them all away and start again. And we should do it because of a stone age myth composed of folk legends.

'A bit whacko at times? Not even close.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-02-2019 7:38 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by Faith, posted 07-03-2019 2:40 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 633 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-03-2019 4:45 PM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 628 of 642 (856807)
07-03-2019 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 623 by Sarah Bellum
07-02-2019 5:30 PM


Re: The State, not God, defines marriage.
I think marriage SHOULD be a matter for the churches and whatever other institutions have reason to do it, rather than the government. However that has nothing to do with this problem I've been discussing. It wouldn't matter where a gay couple got married, a Christian business still would not disobey God and provide a wedding service for their wedding. We simply do not obey human law when it contradicts God's law.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-02-2019 5:30 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 629 of 642 (856808)
07-03-2019 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 627 by Tangle
07-03-2019 1:21 AM


Re: How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
...Faith, from her armchair, who has never read a research paper in any discipline, tells us that archaeology, physics, biology, astronomy, palaeontology, geology and molecular genetics are all so wrong that we might as well throw them all away....

You repeat this from time to time although it's totally false and I've explained how. The only science I object to is whatever is based on the ToE, but most of the work in all those sciences you list does not depend on the ToE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2019 1:21 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by Tangle, posted 07-03-2019 4:17 AM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 630 of 642 (856811)
07-03-2019 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 629 by Faith
07-03-2019 2:40 AM


Re: How To Determine Chosen Human Instruments
Faith writes:

You repeat this from time to time although it's totally false and I've explained how. The only science I object to is whatever is based on the ToE, but most of the work in all those sciences you list does not depend on the ToE.

All those sciences which you DO say are flat out wrong, include core observations that would falsify them if wrong - speed of light, age of rocks, genetic mutation, mutation and mitochondrial dating, genome variation, radiometric dating (and hence all of radio science) archaeological and historical data, dendrochronology, mechanical sorting, etc etc do not depend in any way on the ToE. They are totally independent of it.

If the ToE did not exist, you would still have those objections. Everything is interlinked, the ToE is a conclusion from observations. You just make shit up and call all sciences wrong. It's real bat-shit crazy stuff.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by Faith, posted 07-03-2019 2:40 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by Faith, posted 07-03-2019 6:14 AM Tangle has responded

  
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