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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
jar
Member
Posts: 31175
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 706 of 750 (859250)
07-30-2019 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 705 by Thugpreacha
07-30-2019 8:18 AM


Re: All this is essential to the topic.
Phat writes:

You dont get it. A believer is a beliver in one GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen, whose Son Jesus Christ brought Holy Communion to humanity.

No Phat, you know that is simply not true.

What you are describing are what YOU believe. If you were a Muslim you would believe that Jesus was a Prophet of Allah. If you were Jewish you would believe that God had no sons and that Jesus was simply a failed Messiah.

Phat writes:

Thats a man who embraces logic, reason, and reality but who has never met God. Because he doesn't know or see how this is possible.

Quit asking others h

How would I know I had met God and not the Great Deceiver?

Phat writes:

My point is that for me at least, it is no fantasy.

How do you know it is not a fantasy?

AbE: but back to the topic. (Who started the topic and did the OP want any answer other than the one he wanted?)

The evidence still stands.

The God in Genesis 1 is described as a totally different God than the one in Genesis 2&3 and both of them would deny what you market is the real God.

What does the evidence show?

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 705 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-30-2019 8:18 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 707 by Theodoric, posted 07-30-2019 9:33 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6488
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 707 of 750 (859254)
07-30-2019 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by jar
07-30-2019 8:56 AM


Re: All this is essential to the topic.
and that Jesus was simply a failed Messiah.

And that the Jesus of the christian new testament stories does not exist at all in the rabbinical literature.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by jar, posted 07-30-2019 8:56 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 712 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2019 1:42 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3763
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 708 of 750 (859260)
07-30-2019 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 705 by Thugpreacha
07-30-2019 8:18 AM


Re: All this is essential to the topic.
Thugpreacha writes:

Thats a man who embraces logic, reason, and reality but who has never met God.

Can one be a man who embraces logic, reason and reality but also meets God?

If not, why not?
-Does God hate logic?
-Is God unreasonable?
-Is God not a part of reality?

Perhaps you will be honest and say that there is no way you will surrender logic, reason, and reality for a fantasy. My point is that for me at least, it is no fantasy.

If it's is "no fantasy" as you say... .then you will not surrender logic, reason, and reality for a fantasy either.
Why would you expect others to do something you yourself were not willing to do?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 705 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-30-2019 8:18 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 709 of 750 (859271)
07-30-2019 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 704 by Thugpreacha
07-30-2019 8:13 AM


Re: All this is essential to the topic.
Phat writes:

You dont get it. A believer is a beliver in one GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen, whose Son Jesus Christ brought Holy Communion to humanity. The other gods you mention are cultural constructs...mythos....inventions of cultures of various times and places. There is but One God. If you claim to be a believer you have to believe in that. Not in cultural relativism.


Hubris.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 704 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-30-2019 8:13 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1278
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 710 of 750 (859596)
08-01-2019 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 679 by jar
07-26-2019 6:38 PM


jar writes:

Yet that is what the Nicene Creed says.


Yeah right - that’s how it might read to a five year-old ignoramus who doesn’t understand that “and became man” in the Nicene Creed refers to the doctrine of the Incarnation and whose underdeveloped mind doesn’t understand that God cannot stop being God and become just a man.

Btw, if Jesus was just a man when he was on the earth, how do you explain the following verse? “We are not stoning you because of any good work but for blasphemy, but because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” (John 10:33)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 679 by jar, posted 07-26-2019 6:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by Theodoric, posted 08-01-2019 11:48 PM Dredge has responded
 Message 713 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2019 1:44 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 715 by jar, posted 08-02-2019 8:13 AM Dredge has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6488
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 711 of 750 (859599)
08-01-2019 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 710 by Dredge
08-01-2019 9:45 PM


You are an offensive idiot.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:45 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 737 by Dredge, posted 08-12-2019 3:25 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3639
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 712 of 750 (859603)
08-02-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 707 by Theodoric
07-30-2019 9:33 AM


Re: All this is essential to the topic.
jar writes:

and that Jesus was simply a failed Messiah.


And that the Jesus of the christian new testament stories does not exist at all in the rabbinical literature.

My understanding is that the Pharisees were the Messianic sect. There was a great number of Messiahs coming forth, even more that the fake Dmitris (in Russia, fakers posing as Ivan the Terrible's dead son, Dmitri, which were many and very troublesome), so it was up to the Pharisees to check out each and every one of the new Messiahs, especially since a true Messiah's claim would directly conflict with the occupying Roman forces. Quite rightly, any claim of being the Messiah would have to be checked out by the Pharisees.

By my understanding, after the Diaspora c. 70 CE the Rabbinic tradition was predominantly Pharisaic. Since that opposed (or at the very least did not agree with) nascent Christianity, that made the Pharisees the bad guys in early Christianity.

So then, no, the Jesus of the New Testament should not be expected to exist in rabbinical literature. And one of their favorites, Josephus, did not mention Jesus in the original, but rather in an insertion in Old Church Slavonic (which is to Russian as Latin is to the Romance languages).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 707 by Theodoric, posted 07-30-2019 9:33 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3639
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 713 of 750 (859604)
08-02-2019 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 710 by Dredge
08-01-2019 9:45 PM


Yeah right - that’s how it might read to a five year-old ignoramus who doesn’t understand that ...

Said by the self-admitted extremely low-level ***** with a self-admitted IQ approaching single digits.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:45 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12678
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 714 of 750 (859608)
08-02-2019 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by ramoss
01-20-2013 12:05 PM


Re: Should God be slanged or kept to oneself?
ramoss writes:

Now. you can have what ever belief you want. When it comes to others, it is 'can you show that your belief is true' is the question. What can you show me ??? How can you provide what you believe to be true without what is known as 'confirmation bias'? Can you find a way to take testimony of people away, and show that your belief is more than "warm fuzzy feelings"?

Probably not, but I will think about how I would apply such a logic challenge.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ramoss, posted 01-20-2013 12:05 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31175
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 715 of 750 (859610)
08-02-2019 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 710 by Dredge
08-01-2019 9:45 PM


Dredge writes:

Btw, if Jesus was just a man when he was on the earth, how do you explain the following verse? “We are not stoning you because of any good work but for blasphemy, but because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” (John 10:33)

Easy to explain. The author of John asserts that Jesus claimed to be God. Blasphemy was a capital offense.

Yet it is still what is written in the Nicene Creed and has been included in every version since 325.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:45 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 716 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-03-2019 4:05 AM jar has responded
 Message 731 by Dredge, posted 08-05-2019 3:39 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12678
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 716 of 750 (859789)
08-03-2019 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 715 by jar
08-02-2019 8:13 AM


which leads to the question regarding whether the Nicene Creed should be given more authoritative weight than the Bible.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by jar, posted 08-02-2019 8:13 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 717 by jar, posted 08-03-2019 8:51 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31175
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 717 of 750 (859802)
08-03-2019 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 716 by Thugpreacha
08-03-2019 4:05 AM


Phat writes:

which leads to the question regarding whether the Nicene Creed should be given more authoritative weight than the Bible.

No, it simply points out that we should be honest about what has actually been written and admit that there are contradictions, evolution of tales and that each writing simply reflects the God the authors created.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 716 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-03-2019 4:05 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 718 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-03-2019 12:56 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12678
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 718 of 750 (859816)
08-03-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 717 by jar
08-03-2019 8:51 AM


So in essence you belong to a club that sings songs and celebrates characters in a book? Belief in GOD is not required? Or more precisely not clearly understood...centuries after the BCP was written? I think people are regressing. Soon they will believe that God is simply a human concept. You can call it a Christian Club but if it devolves any further it will simply be a humanist club of do-gooders dressed up with ceremonial religious garb.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 717 by jar, posted 08-03-2019 8:51 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 719 by jar, posted 08-03-2019 1:00 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 720 by ringo, posted 08-03-2019 1:03 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31175
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 719 of 750 (859818)
08-03-2019 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 718 by Thugpreacha
08-03-2019 12:56 PM


Phat writes:

So in essence you belong to a club that sings songs and celebrates characters in a book?

No, nor has anything I have said implied such.

Phat writes:

Belief in GOD is not required?

GOD is totally irrelevant to this discussion and topic.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 718 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-03-2019 12:56 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 720 of 750 (859819)
08-03-2019 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 718 by Thugpreacha
08-03-2019 12:56 PM


Phat writes:

You can call it a Christian Club but if it devolves any further it will simply be a humanist club of do-gooders dressed up with ceremonial religious garb.


You're an optimist.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 718 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-03-2019 12:56 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 721 by Thugpreacha, posted 08-03-2019 1:11 PM ringo has responded

  
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