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Author | Topic: The Origin of Novelty | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I think Percy's just trying to protect BD a little, Dr A.
There's going to be one helluva dogpile on this as it's the hoariest, oldest, crappies argument since Darwin first mentioned it. It's going to be a car crash unless controlled a little. Well, it's going t o be a car crash anyway - it's just a question of what speed it happens at.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Oh, I dunno. Personally I'd rather hear your one-liners than sit through a 2 week pile of pre-ordaned, pre-rehearsed, multiply repeated bollocks, but it ain't my forum.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Blue Jay writes: You have to admit that, on face value, it does seem uncannily fortuitous. I think this is the crux of it. Kipling's Just So stories appear at times to be as good an explanation to the sceptical as those that biologists often put forward. The truth is that we don't know how the giraffe got its neck or the zebra its stripes and in the process of speculation - it's really not much more than that - we appear to give the impression of scientific certainty. What we do have in the place of testable evidence for a particular organ development or physiological feature is a massive amount of information from a variety of disciplines that prove that the overall case for evolution is sound. This allows us to reasonably infer an evolutionary pathway without actually having the evidence to prove it end to end. In other threads we've looked for actual genetic evidence for the creation of novel features and found it extremely hard to pin it to the wall in a totally convincing way. We're not far away now, so instead of trying to show by inference things that must have happened thousands of millions of years ago, we should spend most of our time trying to find modern mutation and the genetic pathways that caused them.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Mindspawn writes: But I believe biological life is restricted to the last 6500 years Right, so did it all get wiped out a couple of thousand years later by the flood too?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
You see, if the flood wiped out pretty much all life about 2,000 years after the miracle 6,500 years ago - then we've only got 4,500 years to play with. Just a detail.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
mindspawn writes: I don't see any logic in that line of reasoning. If there was an intelligent designer, and He did create all life-forms 6500 years ago, there is nothing in the observance of phenotypes or genotypes that contradicts this view. Each time you say this I ask if he destroyed his creation 2,000 years later because this has significant evolutionary consequences, but each time I get no answer. Would you like to answer it now? Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Dr A writes: Actually, I wonder if that's evidence that he's a deliberate troll. Of course he's a troll. For God sake, Chimp beards, dwarfs ......Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
There was a report today about how bed bugs have developed immunity to insectacides.
Bed bugs 'dodge insecticides' with molecular tricks - BBC News The radio report spoke of mutations causing the immunities and suggested that they had been isolated. Anyone able to track down and understand the original research? ABE
Abstract We previously reported high deltamethrin resistance in bed bugs, Cimex lectularius, collected from multiple areas of the United States (Romero et al., 2007). Recently, two mutations, the Valine to Leucine mutation (V419L) and the Leucine to Isoleucine mutation (L925I) in voltage-gated sodium channel α-subunit gene, had been identified to be responsible for knockdown resistance (kdr) to deltamethrin in bed bugs collected from New York (Yoon et al., 2008). The current study was undertaken to investigate the distribution of these two kdr mutations in 110 bed bug populations collected in the United States. Out of the 17 bed bug populations that were assayed for deltamethrin susceptibility, two resistant populations collected in the Cincinnati area and three deltamethrin-susceptible lab colonies showed neither of the two reported mutations (haplotype A). The remaining 12 populations contained L925I or both V419L and L925I mutations in voltage-gated sodium channel α-subunit gene (haplotypes B&C). In 93 populations that were not assayed for deltamethrin susceptibility, 12 contained neither of the two mutations (haplotype A) and 81 contained L925I or V419L or both mutations (haplotypes B-D). Thus, 88% of the bed bug populations collected showed target-site mutations. These data suggest that deltamethrin resistance conferred by target-site insensitivity of sodium channel is widely spread in bed bug populations across the United States. 2010 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. Just a moment... Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Do you think that it's a decent example of a known mutation leading to a new feature?
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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mindspawn writes: i do want to discuss mutation, have specifically requested a few times in this thread that we do discuss mutation. It evolutionists fixation with mutations that seems to blind you to other possiblities when you see two populations that vary. Its obvious that through sexual reproduction new allele frequencies can become common. To assume a positive mutation rather than a rare allelle becoming common is to take the LESS likely conclusion. Allele frequencies change even seasonally with flies, and so why assume a mutation when we have a common mechanism that would show the same results. Well I posted a very recent study of bed bug insecticide resistance which, according to the biologists who worked on it, has been caused by mutations. But so far you haven't discussed it. This is all well above my pay grade, but this extract seems clear to me.
Pyrethroid insecticides target the sodium channels within the insect nervous system. Point mutations in the sodium channels, termed the kdr mutations, reduce or eliminate the binding affinity of insecticides to sodium channels causing insecticide resistance6. Two mutations, V419L and L925I, in voltage-gated sodium channel α-subunit gene had been identified as very important substitutions responsible for deltamethrin resistance in bed bugs21, 30. A causal link between one or both mutations and deltamethrin resistance was reported21. A dual-primer Allele-Specific PCR (dASPCR) approach was developed to identify these two kdr mutations. Two PCR reactions performed with Susceptible Allele-Specific Primer (SASP) and Resistant Allele-Specific Primer (RASP) primers conclusively show status of kdr mutations (Fig. 2A). Bed bugs evolved unique adaptive strategy to resist pyrethroid insecticides | Scientific ReportsLife, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Do it for me - mindspawn can catch up (or not) ;-)
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android |
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