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Author Topic:   Discussing Evolutionary Theories that Explain Aging
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 9 of 24 (692110)
02-27-2013 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by CoolBeans
02-27-2013 3:19 PM


The thing is that aging doesnt bring any benefits so its paradoxical to natural selection, or at least it seems to be the case.
Well, the point is that everything's going to die anyway.
There's a story about Henry Ford. It seems he told his employees to look through junkyards at junked Model Ts and report on why they were broken. When they came back, he observed in their reports that there was one part that was never broken, no matter how beat-up the rest of the car was. So Ford went to his engineers and said: "You're using too much steel in that part, make it weaker."
If you're going to die of starvation, disease, or being eaten by a sabre-toothed tiger anyway, then there's no point in natural selection making you immune to aging, because a variation which would make you resistant to old age after you're dead has no selective advantage. And a variation which makes you more likely to die after you're dead is selectively neutral. And such a variation which also makes you fitter and healthier while you're alive would be favored by natural selection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by CoolBeans, posted 02-27-2013 3:19 PM CoolBeans has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by CoolBeans, posted 02-27-2013 7:39 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 12 by Genomicus, posted 02-27-2013 10:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 11 of 24 (692123)
02-27-2013 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by CoolBeans
02-27-2013 7:39 PM


No, thats not it. Its about what selective advantage would aging give.
But it doesn't have to give an advantage to be permitted by the theory. It can be neutral, or it can be part of a trade-off in which it is not advantageous per se.

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 Message 10 by CoolBeans, posted 02-27-2013 7:39 PM CoolBeans has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 21 of 24 (692336)
03-01-2013 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by CoolBeans
03-01-2013 9:11 PM


Oh, thanks. Wait arent you an ID supporter?
That doesn't mean that he has to be wrong about everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by CoolBeans, posted 03-01-2013 9:11 PM CoolBeans has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 22 of 24 (692339)
03-01-2013 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Genomicus
02-27-2013 10:22 PM


I think the question that CoolBeans is posing here is why we age biologically. The issue isn't really why we die; it's why we undergo senescence, and how this can be reconciled with natural selection.
Well, I didn't talk about dying of old age, I talked about deterioration of fitness. My point is that if this will only happen after a member of your species will (in the evolutionary environment, in the natural course of things) have died anyway, then the mutation causing this will at the very least be neutral.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Genomicus, posted 02-27-2013 10:22 PM Genomicus has seen this message but not replied

  
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