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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Social Issues and Creation/Evolution ⇒

Homosexuality and Natural Selection.

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Topic: Homosexuality and Natural Selection.

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 97 of 243 (349760)
09-17-2006 10:48 AM

Reply to: Message 96 by Hyroglyphx
09-17-2006 10:41 AM

Re: Oppositional slander

Aside from that, what kind of profundity am I supposed to extract from this argument as it relates to humans?

Ask yourself this - why don't workers reproduce? How do they overcome the loss of fitness caused by their sterility?

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	Message 96 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-17-2006 10:41 AM		Hyroglyphx has not replied

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crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 130 of 243 (391654)
03-26-2007 5:25 PM

Reply to: Message 129 by Fosdick
03-26-2007 5:05 PM

Re: How does homosexuality evade natural selection?

Genetic altruism is not unknown.

It's only genetic altruism if you have a viewpoint problem. If you think about the gene as a gene for fecundity in females, but has the side effect of influencing homosexual behavior in males, then I'm not sure how it's altruistic.

I was fascinated by Mod's description of intragenomic conflict in the other thread. Could this be an extended example? Just speculating.

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	Message 129 by Fosdick, posted 03-26-2007 5:05 PM		Fosdick has replied

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	Message 131 by Fosdick, posted 03-26-2007 7:43 PM		crashfrog has replied

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 132 of 243 (391681)
03-26-2007 7:49 PM

Reply to: Message 131 by Fosdick
03-26-2007 7:43 PM

Re: How does homosexuality evade natural selection?

On the other hand, regarding my "viewpoint problem," it remains entirely possible that gays are gay by choice, not by "nature," let us say.

I doubt that any single explanation is sufficient to cover the gamut of any human behavior; looking to either genetics or choice (if there even is such a thing) is simplistic, to say the least.

But it's nonetheless established that there's a correlation between male homosexuality and female sibling fecundity. A genetic influence is the simplest explanation.

If it's merely an optional human behavior (and ignoring the above fact), then I don't see what the relevance of natural selection is. If we're not talking about heritable traits then NS is irrelevant. It's no more "selection" than teen suicide is selection.

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	Message 131 by Fosdick, posted 03-26-2007 7:43 PM		Fosdick has replied

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crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 135 of 243 (391698)
03-26-2007 8:38 PM

Reply to: Message 134 by Fosdick
03-26-2007 8:11 PM

Re: How does homosexuality evade natural selection?

Why couldn't nurture instead of nature explain that? Certain configurations of influential female sibling personalities might expain how the otherwise straight boy turns gay.

Could be. Have they done the studies on sibling pairs raised in different homes? That would rule out the nurture explanation, IMO.

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crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1497 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 201 of 243 (414741)
08-05-2007 11:56 PM

Reply to: Message 198 by Hyroglyphx
08-05-2007 11:25 PM

Re: Arguments from science, not emotion

Why is it that I can't make arguments about moral relativity about beastiality, because, "animal sexuality is just too different from humans," but you get to compare ape sexuality to a humans whenever you think it might suit you?

Because he's not doing it to be an asshole, and also - it's not the same comparison at all.

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