A personal morality

To reap the reward of the immoral behavior. For the money.

It could exist without us being able to define everything, or even be totally aware of its existance.God could have an objective morality laid out. We just don't have access to all the definitions.

There are behaviors that my conscience tells me are immoral that I enjoy doing. I try to avoid these behaviors for some of the following reasons:

• The affects they have on other people.
• The affects they have on me.
• The affects they have on God.

Sometimes I avoid the behaviors for all three reasons sometimes for just one.If I lost my faith and became atheist, the immoral behaviors that I avoid because of their affects on God alone would have no reason to be avoided anymore.If I became an atheist, I would behave more immorally.

Hi Stile,I never got a chance to reply to your last message to me in the Athiesm Examined thread. Do you want me to write one and slap it up somewhere or just forget about it?

Well, I don’t think that I can really effect GOD, but I think that some of the things I do can effect Him within me. You know, the whole “my body is a temple” thingy. So, something like drunkenness could have an effect on god, through me, but I don’t think that little ol’ me is really having much of an effect on GOD. Still though, my conscience tells me that heavy intoxication is hurting god too.So if we take god out of the picture, there is one less reason for me to avoid drunkenness, and I think it would happen more often and I would be more immoral. Assuming that drunkenness is immoral.Other things that could effect god: idolatry and blasphemy.But doing those as an atheist wouldn’t really make me more immoral.Some other people responded with replies that echo the previous line. The things that are immoral only because of their effects on god should no longer be immoral if you’re an atheist.In order for the immorality to increase after becoming atheist, the acts would have to effect more than just god.I also have to admit that the threat of punishment persuades me to avoid punishable behaviors. Removing god as one of the sources of punishment will lead to me behaving more immorally.

Yeah, it probably is. The difference is between god and GOD.I don't think that I can really effect the almighty GOD, but that my actions have an affect on god, as he is in me.I'll leave it at that. I don't care to get down to the gnat's ass with it. Yeah, basically. But I wouldn't say incapable, its more like umwilling.Take god out of this world and.... fuck it, let's party.

No, not really. Its not so much about losing something. Its about gaining. I'd gain the freedom to do all the bad things that I would enjoy doing without the threat of punishment. I could just go hog wild, and I just might.

The fear of punishment from God is not the only reason I wouldn't behave immorally and hurt other people. But, it is one of the reasons. If you remove God, then I have one less reason to NOT behave immorally and would be more inclined to do so. Well, then its a good thing I believe in God, eh?

"Because its the right thing to do" is not the largest reason for why I do good things. Its in there, but a little extra incentive helps in getting the right thing done.Its easy for someone to say they do the right thing only because its the right thing when they ain't doin' shit. Or when they're deluding themselves because they can't admit they do the right things for selfish reasons.I suppose people will say that that makes me a bad person. Without God, so what? Fuck 'em. Survival of the fittest. Might makes right. What are you do with the "bad people"? (<--- that) These "deeper problems" really have little effect on my day-to-day life. I'm not that worried about them. Believe me, to begin with, I am not a very good person. But in the end, after it all, I find that I am a good person, thank God. Tell me, have you ever held a management position? Ever tried to get employees to be good workers without a fear of punishment? Positive reinforcement can work a little, but when it comes down to it, sometimes you gotta bust out the whip That's good for you. If it makes you all warm inside to do the right thing just because it is the right thing, then more power to you.One could also argue, though, that you're doing the right thing NOT because it is the right thing but because it makes you feel good. Perhaps a selfish reason.But what if you just don't care? Or what if you don't feel anything extra from doing the right thing? The threat of punishment should put you on the straight and narrow, no?I don't know why I'm feeling so hostile today, maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed

For some things, the other reasons are NOT sufficient, I'm sorta teetering on the edge. With God I don't fall, but without him I would.I don't really want to expose myself by getting into specific behaviors, if you don't mind.I agree with you for most things, that taking god out really wouldn't have an effect. But there are things, for me, that it would. I would be less moral if I didn't believe in God.

We're talking typing about things that my conscience says are immoral but I would enjoy doing anyways. Sometimes its fun to be bad. When confronted with the option to just do the bad thing anyways, sometimes I think about God and then NOT do them. If I didn't stop to think about God then I'd just go with it and have fun being bad.

Well, then for some of the morally correct things that I do, I am just faking it.

If god says "Don't lie or I'll kick your ass" and the only reason I'm not lying is to avoid the ass kicking, then what is it that I'm faking? How am I being dishonest (in the above situation)?Now, if God says "always tell the truth because it is the right thing to do, and if you don't then I will kick your ass" and I'm only telling the truth to avoid the ass kicking, then No, I wouldn't think that I would be fooling God. And no, I don't think there should be more punishment than for the liars.Now, most of God's commands were "Thou Shall Not's", not "Thou Shall's".

I agree.You won't see me sitting on a moral high horse.I need the threat of punishment as an incentive to avoid the immoral behaviors that I would enjoy doing.

For some things it would and for some it wouldn't. What about something of questionable morallity that the non-God related morality is not sufficient, where the God-related morality is neccessary. People would probably argue that these things are not immoral, but that is not what my conscience is saying. Of course, I could just be brainwashed but I think I've wiped the slate clean and doubt it. The point is that my conscience has labeled some behaviors as immoral, a priori.The idea that if nobody is getting hurt then its okay does not sit well with me. Especially when it effects my realtionship with God. It would be easier for me to accept the above if I was an atheist. If there are some behaviors that hurt others that I don't care about, the last chance for me to not do it is with God. Lets assume I'm not. So what?