When is a belief system a Mental Disorder?

No, you were designed by the very mindful mating of your parents, who (presumably) did not mate at random, but according to what characteristics in each other they felt would result in good children.Mate choice is not random; it's a powerful influence we have on the morphology of our children. And that doesn't even get into rearing and education, where a child becomes a parent's dreams made manifest.

You can largely do all that now. It's simply a matter of mate choice.

I didn't know people mated for that reason. What, a woman picks a tall husband because she wants her children to be tall?

Yeah.Maybe it's under her awareness, but we're attracted to what we're attracted to often because it's a function of what genes we think we're likely to get. We're attracted to people who are the same as our parents in visual ways because that stands a chance of reinforcing genes that we have a sense are good; we're attracted to highly exotic persons in order to gain hybrid vigor.Mostly, though, it's not under anybody's awareness. "She's beautiful; she'll have such beautify daughters." "His sons will be so tall and handsome." What do you think people mean with those sorts of comments? People dream about the children that they'd have with a mate, sometimes before they even know the person's name.Is this really a surprise to you? Did you really think that human beings mated completely at random, or what?

I thought people married or mated with others because they were attracted to them not because they might produce attractive children.Some couples don't have any children and don't want any.And anyway our basic body structure is still designed by nature.

Sorry guys, I am others have been drifting this thread off topic.The topic is when does a belief system become a mental disorder.Is it when someone thinks aliens beam thoughts into their brain?Is it when someone thinks the world is 6000 years old and there was a boat with a pair of every animal ever on it?Is it when someone believes it's not possible for anything supernatural to exist?

A mental disorder occurs when someone mistakes a subjective purpose for an objective purpose.

Why do you think they find them attractive? Indeed, most people seem to be attracted to what statistically makes for healthy children. We find symmetrical faces and bodies attractive because symmetry connotes good health; fascinatingly, almost all human beings can reliably asertain immune compatibility in a mate from their body odor - we find more compatible mates more attractive, olifactorialy.Heterosexual men tend to be attracted to hourglass figures and full breasts; wide hips mean a greater chance of the female surviving birth and providing more offspring. Full breasts mean good health (since breasts shrink as a result of starvation) and a capacity to nourish children.Heterosexual women tend to be attracted to fitness and strength, connoting the power to protect and provide; so too are they attracted to the display of wealth and the command of resources or influence. Many women are attracted to beards, coarse facial and body hair being a secondary indicator of testosterone levels.I mean, I could go on and on. Of course we choose mates to design our children. We percieve that many times as "attraction", but it's not-so-surprising that what we find attractive generally has very much to do with what would be most advantageous for passing on our genes in a child. True, but irrelevant. And predictably, now we're getting into the circular definitions. Presumably you're about to define "basic" as "anything that can't be influenced by mate choice."

Oh, please. I'm talking about things like having arms and legs and brains, and you're talking about hair color and eye color.

And unless you've become a creationist, you know that these are all examples of genetic traits. The fact that we have arms and legs and brains is attributable to evolution, aka natural selection and random mutation, and mate choice is natural selection.We're not designed by "nature". We're designed by a succession of mate choice; people choosing to mate with those who had the traits that another person felt would make for good children.Why do you think the rich-looking guy at the bar gets play from all the attractive ladies? Because women like the smell of money? No, of course not. They're attracted to a mate who displays an ability to provide resources to their children. We call these things "security" and "fitness" but it's all about choosing mates for reproductive success.

Really . . . You seriously think that's the way life works?This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-20-2006 08:30 PM

For the vast majority of human history, where marriage and mating was a tool for cementing political relationships and managing property? Absolutely that's the way life works. To wit, Jane Austen:

quote:

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It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.

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Even today, where we mate based on our feelings and attractions? Absolutely that's the way life works. Through my dating years, I always thought I liked brunettes and readheads. Disdained blondes. Then I thought back to the girls I dated. All blondes except for one of them. Looked over at my wife - I'm married to a blonde.My mom is blonde. Did I wind up with a mate very similar to the ethnogenetic stock from which I myself sprang? Absolutely I did. Did I do any of this out of willful intent? My intent was to date anybody but blondes.Absolutely that's the way life works. Our attractions are not random or subjective, as evidenced by infant studies. Even newborn infants prefer the faces of supermodels to the super-ugly. Do you really think that the newborn has sex on the brain? Of course not. That newborn is already programmed, however, with influences about what traits he or she is going to look for in a mate.You accept without question, I presume, the idea that genetics bears a powerful influence over what gender we wind up sexually attracted to. Is it so hard to believe that genetic or other organic influences could inform what else we base our sexual attraction on? That I might like blondes, despite all pretensions to the contrary, because blonde women are more likely to carry genes that are more similar to, and will therefore tend to reinforce, the genes that I myself carry?The idea that our mate choice is simply a function of our own preferences operating in a vacumn, or a function of finding a "soulmate", is beyond naive. Absolutely that's the way life works - we choose the mates we do largely to provide the most advantageous combination of our genes and theirs avaliable, and to ensure the greatest avaliability of resources for our children.

But of course if someone marries someone completely different, say from a different race, that can be genetically rationalized too, right?All I can say to the whole thing is: How unromantic.This message has been edited by Faith, 02-21-2006 05:47 AM

Dare I draw the conclusion that there aren't very many mentally undisordered people around?

Yeah, bunch of nuts.