Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,814 Year: 3,071/9,624 Month: 916/1,588 Week: 99/223 Day: 10/17 Hour: 6/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   UK's Thatcher, rot in hell . . .
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 1 of 149 (696451)
04-16-2013 9:53 AM


Tang writes:
You think a children's tune from the Wizard of Oz is the same sentiment as saying 'rot in hell, bitch'? I disagree.
Drone writes:
So if I showed up at your mother's funeral and started singing the song "Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead", you would think I was merely singing a children's tune?
Tang writes:
I'd think you were being a callous, unfeeling idiot, with no thought for the grieving friends and family and you'd be asked to leave. But if you started shouting rot in hell you bitch" I'd probably punch your fucking lights out. To coin a phrase.
Well, let's see . . . 'Ding Dong the Witch is Dead' and 'Burn in hell bitch' sentiments are BOTH expressed jubilations of a person being dead. And BOTH of the expressions contain a derogatory nickname. Geee whiz, I can certainly understand why you feel they are sooo very different. I haven't been so convinced with an opponent's desperate example since Crashfrog explained to me that water is actually dry.
Tang writes:
So you weren't in the UK when she was in power. You therefore have as much of a clue about living in the UK with Thatcher as I have of living in the US with Reagan. Which is zilch.
Chuckle. Under both Thatcher and Reagan, there was the escalation of the Cold War, income taxes was cut, privatization was pushed, tax rates for the rich were lowered, unions were broken, globalization over national interests were advanced, and military spending was massively increased. The result was rising unemployment, stagnant or lowering of wages, and higher poverty rates . . . lower standards of living for the 99%. Sorry Pops, maybe you're the one with 0% understanding.
Tang writes:
she got rid of Pinochet.
Wow. Why are supporters of war criminals ALWAYS sooo delusional . . .
quote:
Thatcher stands by Pinochet
Friday, March 26, 1999
Baroness Thatcher has visited General Pinochet at the home where he is staying under house arrest near London - and talked of the "debt" she believes the UK owes him.
She added: "I'm also very much aware that it is you who brought democracy to Chile, you set up a constitution suitable for democracy, you put it into effect, elections were held, and then, in accordance with the result, you stepped down."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/304516.stm
quote:
Margaret Thatcher’s true legacy was the war criminal Tony Blair
The miners war was won by the Thatcher government Cheaper from virtual slave wages soviet controlled Polish coal was imported into the UK and billions of UK money went out of the UK economy to prop up communist Poland and also communist Soviet Russia.
The war in Argentina. . . . Maggie Thatcher said if UK would look like losing in the Falkland island (Malvina’s Island) conflict then it was to do simple plan and to use the old Vulcan bombers to drop a White One (nuke ) on the Buenos Aires capital city of Argentina. That event if it came to pass might have exterminated the present Pope .
http://planet.infowars.com/...some-of-her-war-crimes-exposed
quote:
She led, alongside US president Ronald Reagan, the escalation of the Cold War in the early 1980s, threatening a new round of nuclear weapons that could be used in the event of ‘theatre nuclear war’. She introduced Cruise missiles to Britain in the face of mass opposition, with major demonstrations against Cruise and a peace camp at the Greenham Common base in 1982.
In the same year she enhanced her electoral popularity by fighting the Falklands war, and agreed the order to sink the Argentinian ship General Belgrano when it was sailing away from the combat zone.
Her arms deals with Saudi Arabia were notorious.
Thatcher had few qualms in dealing with autocrats and dictators, supporting not just the reactionary House of Saud but also the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, brought to power in a US backed military coup, and Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, supported by the west in the Iran-Iraq war.
She was a strong supporter of apartheid in South Africa. She denounced Nelson Mandela.
Before she was driven from office in 1990, as a result of mass protests against her poll tax policy, she had enthusiastically signed up to the first Gulf War against Iraq, alongside the new US president George Bush senior.
Margaret Thatcher’s true legacy was the war criminal Tony Blair | Left Unity
Still not convinced? Check out this video of Dick Cheney mythologizing her. If that doesn't make you want to eat your own vomit, then you are a sociopath (aka, a republican).
quote:
'War Criminal' Dick Cheney Mythologizes Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan‬
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGI-9JWLopQ

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 11:25 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:15 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:36 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 31 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2013 1:13 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 37 by nwr, posted 04-16-2013 1:58 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 57 by Coyote, posted 04-16-2013 10:25 PM dronestar has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 7 of 149 (696478)
04-16-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 11:34 AM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
1.61803 writes:
I would say it is easier to look back in retrospect and criticize.
That's a damn foolish thing to state . . .
"Gee school principal, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I cheated on my exams."
"Gee district attorney, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I stole pensions from 10,000 Enron employees."
"Gee officer, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I serial-raped 100 woman."
"Gee judge, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I murdered 1,000 children."
"Gee jury members of the Nuremburg trial, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I committed the genocide of 100,000 Poles."
"Gee members of the International Court System, it's easier to look back in retrospect and criticize the way I lied to my country men into a war which I fully knew there were no WMD."
1.61803 writes:
Dronestar we got it the first time,
You do not like Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Regan (sic).
No need to belabor the point is there?
1.61803, not sure if you ever noticed, but this is a debate forum. If I state some facts and am challenged by another debater, we will continue back and forth for as long as new facts are uncovered to establish the one who's version to the truth is most correct.
That is called 'd e b a t i n g,' not 'b e l a b o r i n g.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 11:34 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:33 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 8 of 149 (696480)
04-16-2013 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
04-16-2013 12:15 PM


And yet, many of that 99% voted for the measures that supposedly caused those effects. You seem to be thumbing your nose at democracy as much as at Thatcher.
I agree. BUT, I have often said that voters often vote against their best interests for a number of reasons. Some do it with willfull ignorance. What can be done?
Health care reform for government-style sinlge payer system health care in the US WAS at 70%. So why didn't the governemnt do what we wanted?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:39 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 14 of 149 (696486)
04-16-2013 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tangle
04-16-2013 11:25 AM


The sounds of backpedaling . . .
Tang writes:
I'm not sure what your point is dronester, but but mine is that singing a ding dong the witch is dead at a funeral is disgusting behaviour but is slightly less revolting than personally shouting "rot in hell you bitch."
Well, this statement is now different from what you originally and oppositely stated:
Tang writes:
You think a children's tune from the Wizard of Oz is the same sentiment as saying 'rot in hell, bitch'? I disagree.
I thought shameless back-pedaling and word-acrobatics would decrease after Crashfrog left. Guess not.
Tang writes:
If you don't know why, you're probably the sort of person that would do it.
Chuckle. From the person who is supportive of a war criminal who supports other war criminals, YOU are trying to mock ME? Good one, Pops.
Tang writes:
Secondly, Thatcher did a lot of things that needed to be done here in the UK in the 70s . . .
Yes, . . . and Mussolini kept the trains on time. Kudos and bravo to them both, right?
Tang writes:
Equally she did a lot of things that I disagreed with. But that's just politics . . .
How disgustingly glib you are. No, it's not "just politics." Its people livelihoods, it's people health, and it's people lives.
Tang writes:
And don't get overexcited about Pinochet either.
Oh, you're just terrible. (Are you really Crashfrog under a different alias?) From this:
Tang writes:
she got rid of Pinochet.
To this:
Tang writes:
I obviously meant to say that she brought down the nasty military junta in Argentina under Galtieri.
Yeah, your first statement was obvious that you meant something entirely and utterly different.
Tang writes:
Politics and war is not a clean business.
Another empty and glib statement.
War acknowledges a failed leadership. Mussolini, Pinochet, Reagan, and Margaret Thatcher were horrible, despicable, criminal 'leaders.'
Rot in hell, the whole bunch of 'em.
And that's not just in 'retrospect.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 11:25 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 2:03 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 15 of 149 (696487)
04-16-2013 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2013 12:30 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Her funeral will cost the tax payers 10,000,000 dollars (are about). Should we discuss that after the service has ended?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:30 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:43 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 17 of 149 (696489)
04-16-2013 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2013 12:36 PM


Damn!
Err, one of them was the BBC. (The dreaded BBC). Do I get some credit back?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2013 12:36 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 19 of 149 (696491)
04-16-2013 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
04-16-2013 12:39 PM


RingO writes:
You don't get to decide what their best interests are.
But, if their best interests intersect my best interests, there seems to be a problem. Yes?
RingO writes:
A better question might be: Why do you re-elect legislators that don't do what you want?
Your singing to the choir Ringo. A very odious thing many people justify their actions is because: the opposition is worse. However, when we vote for a lesser evil, it is still evil. I never have persuaded a person from voting lesser evil. If you know a way, please enlighten me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 04-16-2013 12:39 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 04-17-2013 12:05 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 21 of 149 (696493)
04-16-2013 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 12:33 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Either way it is a matter personal opinion not a point of contention.
To the people whose livielihood, health, and lives she negatively affected, no, is is not JUST a point of contention.
Try to look at it from the victim's point of view.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:33 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:57 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 23 of 149 (696495)
04-16-2013 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 12:43 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
Perhaps they should hang,draw and quarter her and pitch the heap in the Thames.
Too much effort for the bitch. But I likes your thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:43 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 27 of 149 (696501)
04-16-2013 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 12:51 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
I still feel saying rot in hell and the like at a funeral is in poor taste.
I am starting to believe you may have a very low bar of discrimination.
Since YOU brought up Hitler, IF you attended Hitler's funeral would you still be respectful and solemn? If you couldn't attend, would you respect the people who attended the funeral who showed respect?
Edited by dronester, : quotes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:51 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 29 of 149 (696504)
04-16-2013 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by 1.61803
04-16-2013 12:57 PM


Re: speak ill of the dead?
What would give you satisfaction?
I could live without ANY comment after their deaths, but miilions of tax dollars spent on war criminal's funerals? Praising their support to the 1%ers? Disregarding their actions which made the world less humane for the rest?
GRRRR!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 12:57 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by 1.61803, posted 04-16-2013 1:35 PM dronestar has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 33 of 149 (696509)
04-16-2013 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Rahvin
04-16-2013 1:13 PM


Re: Frothing at the mouth doesn't help anyone.
If that doesn't make you want to eat your own vomit, then you are a sociopath (aka, a republican).
Rahvin writes:
was uncalled for.
Did you watch the Dick Cheney video? Or are you criticizing me from ignorance?
A woman died. That is a sad occasion, not a happy one. Whatever our disagreements, it is always sad when a person dies. Indeed, the person exhibiting the most sociopathic tendencies is the person who is glorying in the death of another human being - you are, at this moment, representing all of the hatred and apathetic disregard for human life and human dignity that you claim to oppose.
Again, another person who REFUSES to view things from the victims POV.
Not a single sympathethitc word for many of the victims she has caused throughout the world. Not a single thought or retrospective on the horror to the lives she cuased by supporting Saudi Arabia, Pinochet, and Saddamm Hussein.
Not one word Rhavin? But alas, many, many words for my 'frothing"?
Yeah, I'll certainly agree my frothing doesn't help them much, but it is surely better than fully disregarding the victims.
Though I appreciate your thoughtful words, Rhavin, if you really want to effectively reach me Rhavin, you need to reach me through the victim's POV.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2013 1:13 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2013 1:47 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 43 of 149 (696524)
04-16-2013 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Rahvin
04-16-2013 1:47 PM


Re: Frothing at the mouth doesn't help anyone.
Drone writes:
Did you watch the Dick Cheney video? Or are you criticizing me from ignorance?
Rahvin writes:
The video is immaterial, dronester.
Don't be silly, since the video comment was the point from which you criticised me, it's by default, material.
Rahvin writes:
The victim's POV is the same, dronester. That's what you don't understand. It is sad when any person dies.
That's simply ridiculous.
Emotions can't always be forced. Would you tell a holocaust surviver when Hitler died that they HAVE to feel sad? Puhlease.
Rahvin writes:
You feel compassion selectively.
One: You bet your bottom dollar I do. Virtually everyone does. So do you. Is there any one on the forum who believes otherwise? Anybody? Bueller? . . . Bueller? . . . Bueller?
Second: Every human life is not equal. To believe otherwise is delusional/childish. To waste emotion, money, or energy on those who make the world more cruel takes away finite emotion, finite money, and finite energy from those that do matter.
E.g. If there is a finite amount of money to reform a rapist or to feed a child from starvation, I choose the later. So do you, so stop being silly.
Rahvin writes:
every person has hoes and dreams . . .
Freudian slip?
Rahvin writes:
When I say how sad it is that Thatcher is dead, I am also saying how sad it is that anyone ever has died or suffered,
Okay, prove it. Show me some tangible way that you REALLY feel sad about EVERY person who died from Thatcher's actions. Find the names of every child that has died a horrible death because of the foreign policies of Thatcher. Describe to me EACH of their sad demise. Was it by bullet, bomb, chemical, nutrition, etc. How long did they suffer before they died? Did the parents see them die? Describe to me how sad the friends and family are because of the actions caused by Thatcher. Then go on to describe the people who are still living with lifelong physical and mental injuries brought about by actions of Thatcher. Perhaps from Thatcher selling the Suadi's small arms weapons, or from chemical technology Thatcher sold to Saddam to gas the Kurds. Tell me how EACH of the victims of Pinochet live with their horrible memories from the actions of Thatcher.
When you do this, I will then know you were not being a hypocrit about being sad when EVERY person dies from Thatcher's policies.
Edited by dronester, : former>later, yikes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2013 1:47 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2013 4:20 PM dronestar has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 44 of 149 (696525)
04-16-2013 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Tangle
04-16-2013 2:03 PM


Re: The sounds of backpedaling . . .
Tang writes:
If you don't know why, you're probably the sort of person that would do it.
Drone writes:
From the person who is supportive of a war criminal who supports other war criminals, YOU are trying to mock ME?
Tang writes:
It seems I don't have to try, but no, I realise I'm dealing with an adolescent so I'm mostly ignoring your poor behaviour.
Wow, from my long postS of factS and exampleS, THIS is what you focused on? THIS pettiness is what you bothered to contest about?
Incredible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 2:03 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2013 4:17 PM dronestar has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 45 of 149 (696526)
04-16-2013 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by nwr
04-16-2013 1:58 PM


nwr writes:
I've been critical of Reagan. I probably haven't commented on Thatcher, because that's not where I live and vote.
I appreciate your reply nwr, but as we are now in a interconnected global community, we should be more interested in what our 'brother' does in another part of the world, especially when we are supporting it.
This should be the greatest lesson of 9/11, although I fear the media and government has successfully substituted actual lessons learned with fear and propaganda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by nwr, posted 04-16-2013 1:58 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by nwr, posted 04-16-2013 7:03 PM dronestar has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024