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Author Topic:   Is String Theory Supernatural?
onifre
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 20 of 181 (697431)
04-25-2013 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
04-24-2013 5:24 AM


It has been suggested over in the topic Can science say anything about a Creator God? that anything which exists outside the physical laws of our universe is supernatural.

This is a terrible argument. Our universe is a representative of the physical laws NOT the actual physical laws. The laws of physics aren't limited to what is found in this universe. As is always said, a tweek here or there and the universe would be different, and a multi-verse system would be how the many variations are represented.

I don't think it makes sense to say that something can "exist" outside of any physical laws, be it the ones our universe is bound by, or another variation of them. To "exist" is to be bound by some kind of physical laws.

Something that isn't bound by some kind of physical law/s simply doesn't exist. Anyone claiming they've experienced something like that is delusional.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 04-24-2013 5:24 AM Straggler has responded

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onifre
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 26 of 181 (697438)
04-25-2013 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by GDR
04-25-2013 10:36 AM


Re: What is supernatural?
The line gets pretty blurred.

Manipulating the line makes it blurry.

quote:
: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil

This is a messy definition for two reasons.

First, beyond the obsevable universe is still more universe - it is only beyond observation from our place in the universe. As we understand the expansion of the universe, eventually everything will expand beyond an ability to observe it from Earth.

Second, none of that above information is "of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil" since those things are the subject of fictional books, stories and mythology.

A better definition of the supernatural would be, "something that isn't bound by any physical laws."

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 04-25-2013 10:36 AM GDR has responded

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onifre
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 31 of 181 (697446)
04-25-2013 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by GDR
04-25-2013 11:50 AM


Re: What is supernatural?
That sounds good to me, as does what Ringo suggested.

So then, string theory doesn't qualify as a theory about the supernatural, since it's a theory about the nature of the laws of physics.

- Oni


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onifre
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 33 of 181 (697451)
04-25-2013 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by GDR
04-25-2013 1:41 PM


Re: What is supernatural?
I would be inclined to think that what is meant by that is that those dimensions would be part of this physical universe and as a result they to would be natural.

A part of this universe and all universes that spring up in a multi-verse system. So string, or better yet, m-theory explains the multi-verse and the variations of physical laws that each individual universe can have.

I think that when we talk about other universes with a different sets of dimensions they would be called supernatural.

All the dimensions are still part of a set of physical laws. None of this is supernatural unless someone misunderstood what string/m-theory was actually saying.

Just a minor quibble:

mathematically requires additional time and space dimensions.

No additional time dimension is require. So for an 11 dimenion string theory, there's 10 space and 1 time. But cavediver has explained, and this is beyond my knowledge, that he has worked on higher dimensional string theories of upto 26 dimensions. I don't know what all that math even looks like so I could explain further.

- Oni


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 Message 32 by GDR, posted 04-25-2013 1:41 PM GDR has responded

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onifre
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 43 of 181 (697505)
04-26-2013 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by GDR
04-26-2013 11:04 AM


Re: It is all natural
There are so many holes in your scenario from what I see.

God is responsible for the existence of life in our universe and has a long term plan for us.

This being in a parallel universe, it is also governed by the laws of physics that establish his universe, right?

Did this being ONLY create the living things on a single planet in our universe or did the being create the entire universe (e.g. planets, galaxies, blackholes, etc.)...? In other words, did it create everything or just the living organisms on one planet?

Because these two universes are interconnected God is able to subtly speak to the hearts, minds and imaginations of humans

How? How did this being communicate all of that information about Jesus? Through some kind of magical ability to communicate or does the being have some super technology that it is able to do it with? - because if it's a technological ability and this being is also bound by a set of physcial laws, then none of this is supernatural.

However, in the middle of time He chooses one man, namely Jesus, to perfectly embody His heart for us.

We would need to know how this is done. Again, if it's just technology then it's probably super cool but not supernatural.

From God’s perspective it is all natural, and if we had perfect knowledge of God and His parallel universe it would all appear natural to us as well.

One last question. Is this being that you are calling a god, living in this other universe, is it just another evolved biological organism that has reached a level of super technology that is able to create universes and set in motion the laws of physics? Because if it is, it's super cool but not supernatural.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
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