Summations Only

My opinion, that is shared by A LOT of other atheists,could hardly be construed as hyperbole. A lot of what I take from this is from comments on particular blogs, ya know, from the mouths of active atheists and their take on shit. It's not just Pharyngula, it's ALL of FtB (FreeThoughtBlogs) and Skepchic. I'm curious if you have listened to his side of the story. It is a VERY polarizing issue. It is causing otherwise supposed rational people to act very irrational. I tried as I might to get the whole story, and in the end it appeared as though they set him up. Even now, the likes of PZ and crew are trying to shun him from everything atheist movement related. I see no reason to disbelieve his side of the story and I have stomached just about as much of it as I can. You said that the people being ostracized were being ostracized because they actually were homophobic or mysogonists. I asked you to name one who actually was. tehn, i went on to point out that dissenters are being ostracized from the freethought movement by some of the biggest names by way of being called mysogonist or homophobic simply for not kissing feminist ass or man hating. I am watching it happen. I read skepchic blogs and I see how they are treating people. i see how Richard Carrier is treating dissenters. Who is criticizing those people? WHY is the freethought movement becoming a feminist movement? THAT is my beef with this whole thing. If I wanted to join a feminist movement, I'd do so. If I wanted to talk about feminist issues, I'd join a feminist movement. EVERY FUCKING ATHEIST CONVERSATION is turning into man hating feminist shit. Look what happened at TAM: Amy Roth (AKA Surly Amy) was reduced to tears because of a fucking T-Shirt....worn by another woman...because it said "I'm a skeptic, not a skepchick" and made the whole goddamn thing about HER since there wasn't any actual harrasment going on. DJ Grothe (President of JREF) labeled a sexistGreta Christina also calls DJ Grothe a mysogonist/sexistI am having trouble finding what he even said to be labeled as such, but from the sounds of it, it is something along the lines of stating that all this sexism shit is driving people away from TAM. I'll try and hunt it down, but chances are that it was a Twitter/FB conversation.Last, but most certainly not least, here we have RW herself insinuating very blatantly that if your are not A+ and "just atheist, you are a misogynist and racist.(bolding mine)Long story short, it is a fact that the atheist movement IS getting splintered by feminism and feminist sympathizers. Go to Skepchick and see how many big name people (David Silverman, Matt Dillahunty and Phil Plaitt to name a few) to write about "hate" that women receive. It's all but driven me away from giving a shit about this entire movement and involvement in ANY of the community. Again, good job skepticunts.

Let's take a look at what Richard Carrier does have to say about Atheism+, shall we? Being with or against Atheism+Who do you think that blog post is directed towards? Who is the vitriol directed at? Religious folks don't even know what regular old atheism is, let alone atheism+.Here is his initial post on the subject: The New Atheism+Feel the love in his responses to dissenting voices. In response to one person saying "I'll stick with the original atheism, thanks" he says "So, one vote for douchery. Got it". Yes, now you are a douch if you are "just" an atheist.Atheist "leaders" ostracizing atheists from atheism movements/activities/groups. Let that sink in.In another response he says the following: So again, if you don't adopt this new label, you are a douchebag misogynist sexist homophobe. And a douche.Here's my overall point: 99% of the atheists I've interacted with already were against all the things this atheism+ movement is supposedly about. However, if you don't re-label yourself, you get accused of being FOR all those things.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Then what does that bolded sentence say to you?

Leaving plain atheism to....????? Yes, misogynists and racists. Do you not see those two words there?

That is exactly how I read it: atheism (as opposed to atheism+) is for racists and misogynists. Atheists (as opposed to atheists+) are A-ok with racism and misogyny. Otherwise, why bother saying it?

I severely overestimated how little I give a shit about this. I thought I was up to a serious discussion about it and I obviously am not. I'm just not that interested in it (the whole atheism/religion thing) anymore. You have obviously followed it closer than I have, I'll give you that. Even though I can't provide evidence (not that it doesn't exist, it's just not readily available and I don't feel like digging it up), I still very much am tired of the discussion due to it constantly being about how poorly woman are treated or "white male priviledge" as if feminists issues are MORE rampant in atheist circles than everywhere else.I concede. Sorry to have wasted your time.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

It's not even that they appear to be saying that: many of "them" have actually said exactly that. RW herself has said "I'll leave atheism to the misogynists, racists and rapists". I listen to The Atheist Experience and Matt Dillahunty (a pretty big voice in the movement, IMO) has said basically the same. PZ Meyers as well. And Greta Christina. However, I'll be fucked if I'm actually going to scour twitter and facebook for these comments to back up my claim, so take it for what it's worth I guess.

Really? She did? When?

So racism is only racism when white discriminates against black, but not when black discriminates against white?

Since when does privilege dictate what is considered racism? You are basically saying that it would not be racism for you to tell the king of Rwanda to go eat some fried chicken and watermelon simply because he is privileged.Racism is racism no matter the race. Sexism is sexism no matter the sex. You ought to stop trying to make special cases.

Judging someone based on race. Racism is not synonymous with discrimination. You should try looking up the definition of racism if you are having such difficulty with this discussion. Only in crashfrog land, but not reality.

No, it actually is not. But since we are already at an impasse because you are conflating 3 separate words, this discussion goes no further. There actually is. You do realize that black people can be racist against black people, right? My neighbor, a Mexican, doesn't want her daughter to marry a Mexican. THAT IS RACIST by every definition of the word the way every other person not named crashfrog uses it. You really need to get out of your basement and take a journey into the real world. Racism actually exists and is perpetuated by all races, not just white people. Sexism exists and is perpetuated by women and even asexual people.I understand the guilt you feel for being a white male. It's a horrible burden, I know. But the overly PC shit is trite and makes you really look like a wanker.

Are you really that dense that you really have no clue what racism is? It's RACIST because it is based on RACE. You know, the color of someones skin. Words have meanings and uses for a reason.

Are you being ignorant on purpose? Where did I say anything about light skinned black people? What? Now there is privilege in being a poor Mexican? You really are ignorant. Uh, you continue to say it. You said a black supremacist is less racist than the KKK. In the very next sentence following the one I am commenting on, you said racism only occurs where there is privilege. You said it would NOT be racist for a black man to call you a cracker.You are the one conflating privilege with racism and discrimination. You still don't know what the term racism means.

Do you realize that we are talking about racism? Just racism. You still cannot accept the common definition of the word racism. Stop conflating terms. Ahh, so YOU think Asians are more privileged than Blacks.You're a racist. What do you think CMT is, jackass?Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.