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Author Topic:   Delusions of Grandeur?
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 66 of 82 (699597)
05-22-2013 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Spiritual Anarchist
05-05-2013 7:58 PM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
I would like to respond to the posters original intent. OP says that

"I simply offer that there are other alternatives besides Atheism based on gradual evolution ...based on natural selection or ID based on Theism and a divine plan. "

I would like to know if there are any posters that disagree with OP?

Just to get the ball rollin', I will put forth that an alternative to theism vs atheism is non-theism. Buddhism, for example, is neither theistic (no gods or theology) nor atheistic since its takes no stance on what is not presently given in reality. It seems to me that to claim atheism as opposed to non-theism is to claim some transcendental knowledge that needs to be proven just as the theist needs to prove his theology.

Disagreements?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 05-05-2013 7:58 PM Spiritual Anarchist has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by mrnobody42, posted 05-23-2013 1:07 AM mrnobody42 has not yet responded
 Message 68 by bluegenes, posted 05-23-2013 2:54 AM mrnobody42 has responded

  
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 67 of 82 (699672)
05-23-2013 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by mrnobody42
05-22-2013 12:11 AM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
OK, so since nobody disagrees that " there are other alternatives besides Atheism based on gradual evolution ...based on natural selection or ID based on Theism and a divine plan. ", I will add to that point. The word 'God' does not necessarily infer a personal or even an individual being. God simply refers to the Supreme Source of Reality. What ever it is that is the Supreme Source qualifies as being God. So, whoever said that a being or an individual is the Supreme Source of Reality.

If the Nondualists are right that the Supreme Source of Realty is Awareness than God would not be personal, an individual or anything measurable. So, it is possible that there is a God (supreme source) and that this God is not personal. If everybody agrees with this as well, then we can proceed even further.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by mrnobody42, posted 05-22-2013 12:11 AM mrnobody42 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by bluegenes, posted 05-23-2013 4:23 AM mrnobody42 has responded
 Message 73 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 05-24-2013 7:31 PM mrnobody42 has responded

  
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 69 of 82 (699679)
05-23-2013 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by bluegenes
05-23-2013 2:54 AM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
The difference between an atheist and a nontheist is that atheism is an assertion that there is no God while a nontheistic path such as buddhism makes no such assertions because it deals with reality only.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by bluegenes, posted 05-23-2013 2:54 AM bluegenes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by bluegenes, posted 05-23-2013 4:34 AM mrnobody42 has not yet responded
 Message 72 by Dogmafood, posted 05-23-2013 5:52 PM mrnobody42 has not yet responded

  
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 76 of 82 (700077)
05-29-2013 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Spiritual Anarchist
05-24-2013 7:31 PM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
The Supreme Source of Reality is Awareness. So, this is not at odds with Pantheism at all. The relationship between The Supreme Source (Undifferentiated Awareness)and its manifestations (individualized Awareness) are like the relationship between Pure Undifferentiated White Light and a Rainbow. So, I guess from a Pantheistic perspective, you could say that the White light is God and the rainbow are all the beings. The One manifesting as many.

As far as the Universal soul or the soul of a human or cat for that matter. Its all Awareness, so neither man nor the universe has a soul. But rather the Soul (Awareness) has a universe and individuals. Remember, cats, men and universes are measurable and subject to causation. The only dynamic in the equation of your life that is not measurable, observable or quantifiable is Awareness. The uncaused cause of all Reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 05-24-2013 7:31 PM Spiritual Anarchist has not yet responded

  
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 77 of 82 (700079)
05-29-2013 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by bluegenes
05-23-2013 4:23 AM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
bluegenes aksed "Do you mean that "God" is not a part of reality, and therefore necessarily unreal?

When lights is bent and appears as a rainbow, is the light not part of the rainbow and therefore unecessarily unreal?

well, same deal with the supreme source (light) and its manifestations (rainbow)

Its rather simple actually...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by bluegenes, posted 05-23-2013 4:23 AM bluegenes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by bluegenes, posted 05-30-2013 4:17 AM mrnobody42 has responded

  
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 79 of 82 (700189)
05-30-2013 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by bluegenes
05-30-2013 4:17 AM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
I dont know how to quote you so bare with me please.

Bluegenes said " Reality can't have a real source that is not part of it."

OK, but as I said, Awareness is the source of reality and I think you would agree that Awareness IS also part of the reality that it creates so your "therefore" part is irrelevant. Actually your statement that ...

"Therefore, there cannot be an actual source of reality." sounds silly, doesnt it. No source eh?

I hope you are not basing your theory that there can not be a source of reality on your idea that...

" "Source of reality" is a nonsensical phrase, like "source of everything", because the "source" would be a thing."

As I pointed out earlier, the Source is Awareness and Awareness is not a "THING" itself now is it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by bluegenes, posted 05-30-2013 4:17 AM bluegenes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 05-31-2013 12:13 AM mrnobody42 has responded

  
mrnobody42
Junior Member (Idle past 2658 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-18-2013


Message 82 of 82 (700200)
05-31-2013 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Spiritual Anarchist
05-31-2013 12:13 AM


Re: Dawkins God Delusion
Thanks SA. I assume that the question about the nondual that you are referring to was this one of yours.

"So my question to mrnobody42
is this. How does the Nondual teachings resolve the what appears to be Nihilistic teachings?

So to clarify my question I will word it differently.

How is the Supreme Source different from Pantheism? Also why is the Universe allowed to be aware as a possibility only on the contingency that I am not allowed to be aware... but only "conscious"? "

I answered this question above with the following response...

"The Supreme Source of Reality is Awareness. So, this is not at odds with Pantheism at all. The relationship between The Supreme Source (Undifferentiated Awareness)and its manifestations (individualized Awareness) are like the relationship between Pure Undifferentiated White Light and a Rainbow. So, I guess from a Pantheistic perspective, you could say that the White light is God and the rainbow are all the beings. The One manifesting as many.

As far as the Universal soul or the soul of a human or cat for that matter. Its all Awareness, so neither man nor the universe has a soul. But rather the Soul (Awareness) has a universe and individuals. Remember, cats, men and universes are measurable and subject to causation. The only dynamic in the equation of your life that is not measurable, observable or quantifiable is Awareness. The uncaused cause of all Reality. "


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 05-31-2013 12:13 AM Spiritual Anarchist has not yet responded

  
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